Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
Gregory
Member
Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:01 am
Location: Charlotte
Contact:

Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Gregory »

Greg Brown, Hammerhead Performance won the Race Engine Challenge with a score of 1634.
Greg Finnican
Promoter
Race Engine Challenge
Gregory
Member
Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:01 am
Location: Charlotte
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Gregory »

Jack Barna, Valley Performance, finished first in the In-line class with a score of 1549.
Buck Hinkle did make three successful pulls for a score of 1523.
Greg Finnican
Promoter
Race Engine Challenge
User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
Posts: 10709
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing »

What happened to Randy's engine? It was leading in the inline class when I left. Did it not pass tech ?
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs

Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik »

CamKing wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:55 pm What happened to Randy's engine? It was leading in the inline class when I left. Did it not pass tech ?
They measured the compression ratio to be a tenth to high on one side so, I got tossed.
Not near responsible for the 70 some points difference between the two engines.

It sure would be nice to have a "seasoned" tech inspector there for each operation in order to get the correct calculations because I really think it got messed-up.
Oh, well.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
CGT
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2063
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:29 pm
Location:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CGT »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:47 am
CamKing wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:55 pm What happened to Randy's engine? It was leading in the inline class when I left. Did it not pass tech ?
They measured the compression ratio to be a tenth to high on one side so, I got tossed.
Not near responsible for the 70 some points difference between the two engines.

It sure would be nice to have a "seasoned" tech inspector there for each operation in order to get the correct calculations because I really think it got messed-up.
Oh, well.
How did they check it? Did they go by published data on some components? Or was everything actually checked?
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik »

CGT wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:50 am
Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:47 am
CamKing wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:55 pm What happened to Randy's engine? It was leading in the inline class when I left. Did it not pass tech ?
They measured the compression ratio to be a tenth to high on one side so, I got tossed.
Not near responsible for the 70 some points difference between the two engines.

It sure would be nice to have a "seasoned" tech inspector there for each operation in order to get the correct calculations because I really think it got messed-up.
Oh, well.
How did they check it? Did they go by published data on some components? Or was everything actually checked?
A cc amount of near 2.5cc's got taken into consideration twice because the piston was .012" above the deck at TDC ... when that amount should have been removed from the swept volume only once.
.100" down from TDC is only .088" down from the DECK so the down-fill divider in the formula was bad data.

It's over ... it is what it is. I will improve it and be back next year with a vengeance.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
Posts: 10709
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:47 am
CamKing wrote: Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:55 pm What happened to Randy's engine? It was leading in the inline class when I left. Did it not pass tech ?
They measured the compression ratio to be a tenth to high on one side so, I got tossed.
Not near responsible for the 70 some points difference between the two engines.

It sure would be nice to have a "seasoned" tech inspector there for each operation in order to get the correct calculations because I really think it got messed-up.
Oh, well.
Sorry I left before this happened.
I've been talking to Greg, yesterday and today, working on a plan to make sure this doesn't happen again.
I'm looking for someone in the Charlotte area with a P&G gauge to check CID, and a Whistler to check compression ratio. There should be no need to pull these engines apart.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs

Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik »

I agree with the "P&G" and especially the "Whistler"; there should be at least a few in that area however, taking a head off is mainly so the other teams can get a look at what was done in order to make that engine what it is.

I wouldn't want that part to be changed ... but, using the "P&G" and "Whistler" FIRST would certainly be a lot faster.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
grandsport51
Pro
Pro
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:47 am
Location:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by grandsport51 »

Walter,
Regardless of false measurement
Your Engine still Showed Great!!
Kick Butt next year!!
Dave B.
LIGHT 'EM UP
Warp Speed
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: NC

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Warp Speed »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 am I agree with the "P&G" and especially the "Whistler"; there should be at least a few in that area however, taking a head off is mainly so the other teams can get a look at what was done in order to make that engine what it is.

I wouldn't want that part to be changed ... but, using the "P&G" and "Whistler" FIRST would certainly be a lot faster.
Only problem with a P&G and a Whistler gauge, is they aren't very close to accurate at all. Unfortunately, neither was the tech inspector apparantly! Lol
Congrats anyway!
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik »

Warp Speed wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:42 am
Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:31 am I agree with the "P&G" and especially the "Whistler"; there should be at least a few in that area however, taking a head off is mainly so the other teams can get a look at what was done in order to make that engine what it is.

I wouldn't want that part to be changed ... but, using the "P&G" and "Whistler" FIRST would certainly be a lot faster.
Only problem with a P&G and a Whistler gauge, is they aren't very close to accurate at all. Unfortunately, neither was the tech inspector apparantly! Lol
Congrats anyway!
A P&G is not perfect but close and I have never witnessed a Whistler to be wrong, unless the data input is wrong or ring blow-by is high. These engines have almost no blow-by at all.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
Walter R. Malik
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6353
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:15 am
Location: Roseville, Michigan (just north of Detroit)
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik »

grandsport51 wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:38 am Walter,
Regardless of false measurement
Your Engine still Showed Great!!
Kick Butt next year!!
Dave B.
The actual measurements were fine ... just the derived data was off.

It's overwith ... moving ahead is paramount.
Last edited by Walter R. Malik on Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.
User avatar
CamKing
Guru
Guru
Posts: 10709
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Denver, NC
Contact:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by CamKing »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:12 pm A P&G is not perfect but close and I have never witnessed a Whistler to be wrong, unless the data input is wrong or ring blow-by is high. These engines have almost no blow-by at all.
From what I was told, the engine needs to be cold for the P&G. My thought is to use it on each engine before their first run, and use that displacement for calculating their score.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs

Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
randy331
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3337
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:30 pm
Location: N.W. MO.

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by randy331 »

I'd rather see a spec fuel with no comp limit. Let the engine builder decide what they can run on that particular fuel. Isn't that part of engine building ?

That'd do away with this type of problem.

I spent a lot of time making sure our 2017 engine was at, but not over the comp limit. But there's always room for someone else to come up a little different on it.

Anyway good job Walter !

Randy
tenxal
Expert
Expert
Posts: 804
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:48 pm
Location:

Re: Winner Of The Race Engine Challenge

Post by tenxal »

CamKing wrote: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:32 pmFrom what I was told, the engine needs to be cold for the P&G. My thought is to use it on each engine before their first run, and use that displacement for calculating their score.
When I did P&G'ing at NHRA events, the gauge came with a thermometer and a calibration chart. Used correctly, they are very accurate.
Post Reply