Air/ fuel ratio data logger

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2x4b4fun
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by 2x4b4fun »

LM-2
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by donforeman »

Innovate Lm-2 is a good choice. AEM makes both wide band o2 sensor controllers and has data loggers that are not too expensive. They have a very good reputation for accuracy. I have the AEM wideband controller kit that does not have a gauge - 30-0310. It goes direct to the logger of your choice, it does not have to be AEM even. It was a tossup for me between that and the LM-2, advantages and disadvantages to both.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by David Redszus »

donforeman wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:53 pm Innovate Lm-2 is a good choice. AEM makes both wide band o2 sensor controllers and has data loggers that are not too expensive. They have a very good reputation for accuracy. I have the AEM wideband controller kit that does not have a gauge - 30-0310. It goes direct to the logger of your choice, it does not have to be AEM even. It was a tossup for me between that and the LM-2, advantages and disadvantages to both.
We recommend, use, and sell the AEM over the Innovate.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by MasterUMC »

If you can find an Innovate DL-32 thats what you want. It can take up to four 5 volt sensor device inputs and also has a G force and Vacuum (built in) Best thing about it is it also has a removable SD Card where it auto stores the data.

I picked one up for $125 and use it in my track car.

Also if you need more data inputs you can add an SSI-4 (not the plus) to add 5 more data inputs from any 5 volt sensor.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

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6 cylinder puller wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:51 am Yes I do understand that, just bouncing questions of of people would are a lot better at this than me. Just trying to find a simpler way to help me start to educate myself in how to tune engines better. 👍
Ah ha! Well, you've already been led toward a false path (and I know, because I went down it).
The AFR logger is not the tuning device you've been led to believe.
There are many reasons why. One is that its not really an AFR logger. Its interpretation of a sensor's response to oxygen.
It is a useful tool in many situations but its not the be all, end all.
6 cylinder puller wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:15 am Would reading the plugs be better ?
Reading plugs after a pull is definately a good way to get an idea of what was going on inside the combustion chamber.
6 cylinder puller wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:15 am Or what would a good desired air/fuel ratio be ?
On a pull? The one that produces the most torque over the rpms you're looking at.

Start here. there is no need to join evil Tapatalk. Just click no thanks and read what's there.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/racingf ... html#p3408

if you're making a pull, most chassis dynos have a WBO2 that can be run with it using a tailpipe sniffer.
That will show any major trends (like going richer or leaner) during the pull.
It will be logged simultaneously with the mph and/or rpm, which is really required for a WBO2 AFR to be useful on a wide open throttle pull.

At idle, CO is probably a better way to see AFR, depending on the setup. Once in while you can find a CO meter for sale.

In situations other than idle or WOT, it is very helpful to know the throttle postition and/or manifold vacuum (pressure if you prefer to look at it that way).
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by donforeman »

Mattax wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:44 pm Ah ha! Well, you've already been led toward a false path (and I know, because I went down it).
The AFR logger is not the tuning device you've been led to believe.
There are many reasons why. One is that its not really an AFR logger. Its interpretation of a sensor's response to oxygen.
It is a useful tool in many situations but its not the be all, end all.
Yes there are a few things that can throw a wideband o2 off like a lot of overlap at idle and misfires, but seriously with a few exceptions its very good for tuning. Even the five gas can lead you down a rabbit hole if you are not paying attention. Mine would loose calibration once in a while so its gone, it was also a very expensive piece of equipment and not all that portable. Both the Innovate LM-2 and Aem Data loggers have inputs that can track other helpful data like TPS and Pressures and that does help complete the picture so we are not in complete disagreement. I would say that he is very much on the right path, with just a few minor exceptions to keep in mind.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by MadBill »

A common poor boy data logger is a video recorder pointed at the instruments. I believe capturing readable data requires analog gauges.. (or maybe a Super 8 camera)
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by peejay »

MadBill wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:04 pm A common poor boy data logger is a video recorder pointed at the instruments. I believe capturing readable data requires analog gauges.. (or maybe a Super 8 camera)
I've done this for years.

That's the pisser. Digital video cameras do not work with LED based gauges due to the way LEDs are dimmed.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by smeg »

I have an Innovate ST-12 going cheap.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by Mattax »

I think we are in agreement. My main point was an AFR log alone is not a simpler path to tuning. Tune for performance and use the WBO2 in combination with rpm (along with MAP or TPS if possible) for tracking the effect of fueling changes. That any article or marketing impliyimg a tuner simply needs to target an AFR number is offering a false path to tuning bliss. The example of a situation where a AFR interpretation can be wrong was just meant to be a lead in example.
donforeman wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:11 am
Mattax wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:44 pm Ah ha! Well, you've already been led toward a false path (and I know, because I went down it).
The AFR logger is not the tuning device you've been led to believe.
There are many reasons why. One is that its not really an AFR logger. Its interpretation of a sensor's response to oxygen.
It is a useful tool in many situations but its not the be all, end all.
Yes there are a few things that can throw a wideband o2 off like a lot of overlap at idle and misfires, but seriously with a few exceptions its very good for tuning. Even the five gas can lead you down a rabbit hole if you are not paying attention. Mine would loose calibration once in a while so its gone, it was also a very expensive piece of equipment and not all that portable. Both the Innovate LM-2 and Aem Data loggers have inputs that can track other helpful data like TPS and Pressures and that does help complete the picture so we are not in complete disagreement. I would say that he is very much on the right path, with just a few minor exceptions to keep in mind.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by David Redszus »

Just reviewed some Lambda values for a drag racer.
Just off the line the mixture went massively lean and acceleration G forces dropped.
One second later the mixture recovered and held steady slightly rich of stoich at 10,000 rpm.
Near the end of the run, the mixture again went erratically lean.

Was this irregular and inconsistent Lambda reading due to carb behavior or ignition issues?
Or crap fuel?
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by Tuner »

David Redszus wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:33 pm Just reviewed some Lambda values for a drag racer.
Just off the line the mixture went massively lean and acceleration G forces dropped.
One second later the mixture recovered and held steady slightly rich of stoich at 10,000 rpm.
Near the end of the run, the mixture again went erratically lean.

Was this irregular and inconsistent Lambda reading due to carb behavior or ignition issues?
Or crap fuel?
Without more details about the car and carb, etc, and assuming it actually is lean, not over-rich misfire fooling the O2, it sounds like a Holley carb that needs jet extensions.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by F-BIRD'88 »

Do not use the afr reading to set the idle on a carbed engine.

For test and tune to find best wot jetting I use the output of a NB O2 sensor data loged thru my multimeter serial output to my laptop.

It is only intended to show if the tuning progression is resulting in a TOO lean jetting, as a warning device.
Tune for best overall power. The data log and plug appearance help keep you out of trouble.
You don't need to know the exact AFR.

A AFR guage and or a afr data log is at best a usefull You're too lean". -- warning device for when tuning.
It can show some ignition faults too.
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Re: Air/ fuel ratio data logger

Post by 6 cylinder puller »

So I feel I need to clarify a lot ! So what’s going on, we’re pulling with a large 4 cylinder (400+ cubes tractor engine, the engine has be extensively modified but due to rules has to run a factory exhaust manifold to 3 inch exhaust pipe, and intake both have been ported and the stock appearing carb which has been modified also. The performance I know is there but do to I feel the carb being modified and jet settings are off ,I feel timing is close. But the performance hasn’t impressed me , it does well and wins occasionally against competition but still feel more is there just human error is causing it . I feel I am leaving a lot on the table yet. So to the spark plug reading, yes I would love to know what I am doing there but due to the fact I have many irons in the fire. I feel I don’t have the proper time to invest into that but with some background info from a logger maybe I could start to learn some . I feel I need a logger that does both intake vacuum, rpm and Af ratio. I feel I have lean spikes in the rpm range and really rich spikes at very low rpms. The carb has no mid Circuit. Also I am looking to make modifications down the line and want something to get me back close. I am not looking for the end all in this but I am looking for something to give a ballpark idea. Due to it being rich idling around it’s hard to get a good spark plug reading. I feel also maybe my vacuum is high and maybe there would be a performance gain there also. I am looking for good power overall cause this tractor sometime also runs a speed limit where throttle response and mid to full thottle will be used.
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