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Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Racing68
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Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by Racing68 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:30 pm

https://www.pca.org/story-behind-drivens-new-gp-1-oils

Did DA Lubricants change their formula around first part of 2019? I also found some posts on YB stating that DA lubricants has stopped getting their base oil from ARG refinery and the additive package they used from Lubrizol has been discontinued. Anyone hear anything about this, I've been a Brad Penn dealer for 8 years now and need to make an order, but after seeing this i'm a little reluctant now.

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by tuffxf » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:01 pm

G,day,
Sure would like to know the truth on this as well, have emailed their head tech guy and have been told it is still the same,
I honestly do not know what to believe,
I think their is a lot of marketing on both sides of what we are reading online, I had some samples tested of earlier and later brad penn and additive wise they looked virtually identical.
However other people are saying it is the base oil that has changed and that doesn't show on a normal oil sample it needs some higher tech testing to show that.
It sure is /was an awesome oil for an alcohol fuelled engine in my opinion
Maybe contact arg lubricants and ask the question?
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by hoffman900 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:14 pm

If the oil is doing what it is suppose to and what you need it to, does it matter?
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by Racing68 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:34 pm

If the info is true the change has been made after my last order so I could not say if there are any problems, I've had no problems with the current stock i have. I really don't want to order $6000 worth of oil that i don't know for sure is the same, and then start having problems.

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by Lizardracing » Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:56 pm

I’d think it would be dumb to assume it wouldn’t change to keep up with vendor changes, supply changes and general technology and industry standards. Everyone hopes the changes are for the better but I guess we don’t really know until the consumers try it and report back. I’m going to keep using it until I see an issues but all my stuff is pretty standard 400hp stuff that doesn’t really tax an oil like some of the stuff guys here are doing.

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by inline6 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:38 pm

Have you ever oil sampled? My lab has a virgin oil sample of my oil that I paid for so I would be sending a sample in if I were you to compare. Pretty cheap and it really tells the truth.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by midnightbluS10 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:46 pm

Contact them and ask. That's the only way you'll get facts. Otherwise it's speculation and rumor and that's it. I've done it with plenty of companies. Last one was Callies. Somebody claimed they had been sold and were making stuff overseas now or some bs.


Nope. Still owned by the founder with no plans of selling to anyone at anytime. Yet there are multiple people who thought for whatever reason, maybe somebody busted their crank and got mad and was talkin shit, that Callies had been sold and was making inferior products. IMO, that's the most likely possibility. But instead of finding out the truth, they got inline and spread it around to others.


Call em. Email em. Find em on social media. Most times, they'll answer your questions. At least they do for me.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by swampbuggy » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:45 pm

Good post M.B. S-10 Mark H. :wink:

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by GARY C » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:16 am

hoffman900 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:14 pm
If the oil is doing what it is suppose to and what you need it to, does it matter?
It does matter... "If" they entered the market claiming to be better than their competitor based on a magic formula and then convinced people to purchase their product based on that magic formula but then switched said magic formula without telling their customers, at the very least the FTC should investigate for deceptive trade/product claims.

It seems most people end up buying theses trickdick oils when they never had a problem with the oil they were using and never tested to see if their new twice the price oil actually provides any benefit at all. If the product can be completely redone (and company's do it all the time) and the user never sees a difference then chances are he never needed the magic product or it was not magic to begin with.
Last edited by GARY C on Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by GARY C » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:32 am

midnightbluS10 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:46 pm
Contact them and ask. That's the only way you'll get facts. Otherwise it's speculation and rumor and that's it. I've done it with plenty of companies. Last one was Callies. Somebody claimed they had been sold and were making stuff overseas now or some bs.


Nope. Still owned by the founder with no plans of selling to anyone at anytime. Yet there are multiple people who thought for whatever reason, maybe somebody busted their crank and got mad and was talkin shit, that Callies had been sold and was making inferior products. IMO, that's the most likely possibility. But instead of finding out the truth, they got inline and spread it around to others.


Call em. Email em. Find em on social media. Most times, they'll answer your questions. At least they do for me.
Thats assuming that they would actually tell you or that the person you would talk to actually knows if a change had been made.

How many people know the VP racing fuel was bought out be a big corporation? As a long time distributor I only found out from the driver that delivers my fuel, then confirmed it with my sales rep.

It was probably a year or so before this was even mentioned and few know or will admit to any product changes they may have taken place.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by hoffman900 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:34 am

If they changed the formula, and the performance is still the same, then what is the problem? Presumably it exceeds that of cheaper oils, and if it performs exactly the same, then their advertising is still on point.

Oil manufacturing and design is far more complicated than anyone on here can understand. It takes teams of chemical and mechanical engineers, and chemists to develop this stuff. Really, all we can do as laymen, is to know what we need from a performance standpoint (viscosity, zinc content, etc), and match the product accordingly.

How they get there is totally up to the manufacturer, and with having so much choice, ultimately the decision is
left up to the consumer (which is terrifying). In engineering speak, this is called a performance specification; ask a consultant / contractor what you need the final product to be and their means and methods are totally up to them.

Lastly, you should always provide an unused sample of whatever oil batch you are putting into the engine as a reference. You’re looking for the delta between them, and due to changes in formulation (which you would probably never notice) you need to do it with the oil you are pouring in that day. Analysis without a baseline is almost pointless.
-Bob

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by Truckedup » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:15 am

I have sent unused vigin oil samples into Backstone labs to see what in them...I don't know about other labs, but Blackstone tests for a listed number of additives and there can be more than the ones tested...
Here' an exmaple of oil I use in one of my street bikes...This is a full ester base synthetic but no info on that..

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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by CamKing » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:38 am

The Company who put's their name behind the product, says the formula has not changed.
Some unnamed guys on the internet, with no accountability, or proof, said the formula has changed.

I'm believing the company.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by GARY C » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:19 am

CamKing wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:38 am
The Company who put's their name behind the product, says the formula has not changed.
Some unnamed guys on the internet, with no accountability, or proof, said the formula has changed.

I'm believing the company.
From the link in the OP, I believe is from Driven Oils
A particular additive package from Lubrizol has been favored by Brad Penn, which became DA’s Penn Grade, and Valvoline for their VR1, for their oils. This package used a sodium-based detergent which was known to be gentler, resulting in a more robust ZDDP film, but the sodium detergent has since been found to cause low speed pre-ignition, or LSPI. Coupled with the fact that this additive wasn’t a money maker for them, Lubrizol sadly discontinued this package. For those of you who follow us on Facebook, you might have seen posts in late December of 2018 and January of 2019 advising of these changes. We have since verified through oil analysis that indeed there were formulation differences forced by Lubrizol’s change to any oils that relied on this now unavailable additive package.
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Re: Did Penn Grade 1 change their formula?

Post by GARY C » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:24 am

Looks like VP is being sued for a similar move of changing product and selling lower octane than advertised.
http://www.dragraceresults.com/fullstor ... 704&type=2

Full claim details.
http://petroleumtrends.com/Complaint_2.pdf
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