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1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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lefty o
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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by lefty o » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:51 pm

Dave Koehler wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:09 pm
lefty o wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:04 pm
Dave Koehler wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:20 pm

You are saying that the nitrous is more spiky (a word?), detonation sensitive or creating higher pressure than needed.
I was saying for the cylinder pressure required to hit X HP all methods get there in the end.
Like I said it is a bit of a quibble.
maybe so, but we are talking about extreme budget parts trying to make 1400hp, its going to take 7 or 800 shot of juice to get there. with cheap parts, may as well light off dynamite in those cylinders.
No worries. It's not going to happen. It's a quantum leap from a 900 HP magazine what if article to real world 1400 HP.
I did not address the quibble from a budget or HP goal standpoint. Just the wording in general.
no argument there. might live for a couple of pulls on turbos though. i can think of better ways to waste 6 grand.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by rustbucket79 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:11 pm

raynorshine wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:48 pm
rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:35 pm
raynorshine wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:43 pm


yes! x2 =D>

-i've only scattered one engine...and i felt like a total azz :oops:
Where do you race in British Columbia Raynor?
been awhile...Northern Lites, Ft St John BC
I raced there once maybe 6 or so years ago, nice facility and they even had a turkey feast for the racers. You guys have some very serious iron up there. 8)

Craig J
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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Craig J » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 pm

raynorshine wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:05 pm
-this kinda of non-sense...dribble...head in the clouds(or possibly elsewhere)...is AKA "False Economy" :lol:
Does that include stock rod & piston 4.8 chevy engines that make 800 hp? just trying to understand how many fake engines are out there...

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Dave Koehler » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:46 pm

Craig,
Your profile lists your profession as engineer/marketing.
You should be able to understand dollars and their distribution.

Work up your desired engine using parts listed and priced on the internet.
Most of these things will be aimed at the budget builder which should help the cause.
Then call around and see how much labor will be to machine various parts.
Then come back and please let us judge your choices because right now this thread is going nowhere.

In case anyone is wondering, this is where this all started.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59310
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by ptuomov » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:52 am

Is your own time not counted in the cost estimate? Because that can make big difference to the ultimate cost.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Dave Koehler » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:15 am

ptuomov wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:52 am
Is your own time not counted in the cost estimate? Because that can make big difference to the ultimate cost.
I never got the IRS to believe in personal time being worth anything. :lol:
Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Balancing - Nitrous Master software
http://www.koehlerinjection.com
"Never let a race car know that you are in a hurry."

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by ptuomov » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:49 am

Dave Koehler wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:15 am
ptuomov wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:52 am
Is your own time not counted in the cost estimate? Because that can make big difference to the ultimate cost.
I never got the IRS to believe in personal time being worth anything. :lol:
I think this project is related to a bet. Bets have rules, either set when the bet is made or then made up and argued about during the duration of the bet.

In terms of IRS, I frequently get the IRS agreeing that my time is worthless -- say by volunteering for our school.

More seriously, how about a 427 forged steel truck crankshaft, stock rods, cheap and heavy forged flat top pistons with wide ring gaps, very low (6.5:1) compression achieved flat top pistons and by carving our the heads, factory EFI that someone has hacked, largest injectors that (a reasonable amount of) money can buy, E85 fuel, and big cheap turbos attached to knock-off headers?

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Orr89rocz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am

I would try the filled stock block with stock 427 steel crank but put in some kind of H beam steel rod, good flat top piston for boost, which idk who has that can handle 1400. No need for low comp. 9-10:1 is great with e85

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by ptuomov » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:02 am

Orr89rocz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am
I would try the filled stock block with stock 427 steel crank but put in some kind of H beam steel rod, good flat top piston for boost, which idk who has that can handle 1400. No need for low comp. 9-10:1 is great with e85
I think that if one is at all pushing the limits of the block, pistons, and the crank, one can run higher average cylinder pressures with lower compression while keeping the peak cylinder pressure constant. I'm not just talking about knock here.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by DeezNutz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:06 am

Cheap
Fast
Reliable

Pick two. It will not be the other one.


I think this is destined for catastrophic failure for $6000.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Orr89rocz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:36 am

ptuomov wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:02 am
Orr89rocz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am
I would try the filled stock block with stock 427 steel crank but put in some kind of H beam steel rod, good flat top piston for boost, which idk who has that can handle 1400. No need for low comp. 9-10:1 is great with e85
I think that if one is at all pushing the limits of the block, pistons, and the crank, one can run higher average cylinder pressures with lower compression while keeping the peak cylinder pressure constant. I'm not just talking about knock here.
Maybe but 6.5 to 1 is absurdly low in my opinion. The tune window is wider and safer on lower comp generally but e85 is very tolerant

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by ptuomov » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:40 pm

Orr89rocz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:36 am
ptuomov wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:02 am
Orr89rocz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:23 am
I would try the filled stock block with stock 427 steel crank but put in some kind of H beam steel rod, good flat top piston for boost, which idk who has that can handle 1400. No need for low comp. 9-10:1 is great with e85
I think that if one is at all pushing the limits of the block, pistons, and the crank, one can run higher average cylinder pressures with lower compression while keeping the peak cylinder pressure constant. I'm not just talking about knock here.
Maybe but 6.5 to 1 is absurdly low in my opinion. The tune window is wider and safer on lower comp generally but e85 is very tolerant
The whole challenge is absurd in some sense, that’s why it’s fun! If one wants to use cheap components for crank, rods, and block and wants to make 175hp per hole, then both high rpms and high peak cylinder pressures should be avoided. I think that big displacement and low compression are the way to go. How low is too low is of course a good question.

E85 can have wide tuning window but my understanding is that it’s still the case that high compression makes the peak cylinder pressure high with E85, too.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by Orr89rocz » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:52 pm

Right. To me 9:1 is low compression. 9:1 is pump gas boost. E85 can do 10:1 easily. We have e85 guys over 10:1 on 20+ psi making near if not over 2000 flywheel

I like the challenge. I havent seen a factory bbc block pushed. But i assume they have to be pretty decent with good machine work and caps/studs.

I was able to make 1400 hp flywheel on a shp block sbc with compstar internals. 9:1. On 110 gas. It held but wasnt happy. Far cry from 6g money but i’d be curious a 454 or so cube factory bbc with china h beam rod like eagle scat or compstar and a good piston couldnt do the same. Lot more material in the block and crank, more cubes which should lower average cyl pressure

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by dannobee » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Ross shows 8:1 blower/turbo pistons with pins. Add rings for $800/set. I think he said he had a 0.030 over block, right?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ros-82016/overview/

Eagle rods $550/set
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/esp- ... /chevrolet

Forged scat crank $800
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca- ... /chevrolet

Add bearings and balancing and hopefully keep the short block under $2500. No, his labor is NOT included. And that's assuming all of the stars align as far as machine work.

You're asking a LOT from a stock rod for this application. I doubt it's gonna handle 25 lbs of boost, even for a couple of pulls.

I agree with the hacked factory fuel injection and high flow injectors. Crude but effective in this case.

I think a more fair bet would have been double the power at HALF the cost.

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Re: 1400 hp Big Chevy combinations

Post by tt 383 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:39 pm

Orr89rocz wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:52 pm
Right. To me 9:1 is low compression. 9:1 is pump gas boost. E85 can do 10:1 easily. We have e85 guys over 10:1 on 20+ psi making near if not over 2000 flywheel

I like the challenge. I havent seen a factory bbc block pushed. But i assume they have to be pretty decent with good machine work and caps/studs.

I was able to make 1400 hp flywheel on a shp block sbc with compstar internals. 9:1. On 110 gas. It held but wasnt happy. Far cry from 6g money but i’d be curious a 454 or so cube factory bbc with china h beam rod like eagle scat or compstar and a good piston couldnt do the same. Lot more material in the block and crank, more cubes which should lower average cyl pressure
The one in the link I give was the more “fragile” 396/402 block that was filled with a T427 factory crank, good rods/pistons, twin S480, AFR 305cc and blowthru. That 3200lbs eventually went 7.93 @184mph

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