BLOCKMAN wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:42 amThose are nice pistons but I prefer the Mahle with the 1MM 1MM 2 MM ring pack its totally up to youMikej26 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:17 amI’ve bookmarked you. What are your thoughts on CP-Carillo bullet pistons relative to the Mahle powerpaks?BLOCKMAN wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:33 am
On 3.750 stroke rods I am kind of partial to the Callies Compstar rods They plenty of cam to rod clearance no need for a reduced base circle cam.
Crankshafts I am Partial to the Callies cranks and have used the Molnar line and also have used the cranks from Liberty Performance which is the same crank Manley Performance sells.
If your looking at pistons I would look at the Mahle Power Pack piston they have a 1MM 1MM 2MM ring pack Very nice pistons.
If your looking for a block I sell that block all machined to your spec for 1975.00 Shipping in the U.S. is 125.00 I would up grade to main studs.
Here is a link to my page
http://hinksonautomotive-cncblocks.com/products/
Good luck what ever way you go.
I apologize for all of the questions lately. I grew up with a family automotive business and worked there into my mid 20’s. I switched careers and the family business 40 years dissolved for various reasons. So now nearly 20 years later I’m getting back into things since I’m finally able to afford such a hobby.
They both have can have the same ring package.
Tom
Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
For it's worth department...….at PRI (a long time ago) K1 told us their rods were "near net forged" the big end is supposedly forged with the hole in it. "superior grain flow". Not sure it's true or that it matters. Eagle forges their caps separate "superior grain flow"
Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
I know a k1 crank and rod combo in a 98mm turbo lsx combo went low 7’s at 185-195 for a few seasons at 3280 lbs before being replaced with something else. The parts taken out were still fine and were sold to someone else to use in a milder combo
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Tom Molnar's parts are top notch with the only limitation being the overseas 4340 steel vs the 4330VM which you'll get in the much more expensive rods.
There is a big difference in quality between Molnar/K1/Compstar and then Scat/Eagle - they are not finished the same and both Scat and Eagle products are quite a bit inferior in that regard - consistently they have pin bushings with "0" clearance, the big ends go out of round when you torque cycle the hardware, and the threads/bolt shoulder face are much rougher. As for the cranks, it's not even close, journal sizing is almost always messed up on the slightly cheaper imports vs. the first three I mentioned.
We're WD with both Molnar and Wiseco/K1 and I always pick Tom's parts because I'd much prefer to put the money in his company's pocket vs a huge conglomerate of companies...plus, I can actually talk personally to the owner rather than random phone monkeys.
There is a big difference in quality between Molnar/K1/Compstar and then Scat/Eagle - they are not finished the same and both Scat and Eagle products are quite a bit inferior in that regard - consistently they have pin bushings with "0" clearance, the big ends go out of round when you torque cycle the hardware, and the threads/bolt shoulder face are much rougher. As for the cranks, it's not even close, journal sizing is almost always messed up on the slightly cheaper imports vs. the first three I mentioned.
We're WD with both Molnar and Wiseco/K1 and I always pick Tom's parts because I'd much prefer to put the money in his company's pocket vs a huge conglomerate of companies...plus, I can actually talk personally to the owner rather than random phone monkeys.
Nate @steeldustmachine
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Specifically for this combo, I use the lightweight Molnar crank & rods along with better CP pistons (vs. the ancient Wiseco K and ProTru designs) with the 4.125" Dart SHP block, touch up a set of AFR 220cc heads and you have a long block that'll make a ton of power depending on your valve train setup for where you want it at.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:00 pm Been shopping around looking for different components for a 400+ sbc.
Have stumbled across what seems to be a pretty good deal through summit racing that is a Dart SHP 4.125 bore block with a K1 3.75” crank and K1 6” rods with Wiseco protru pistons.
I know that Tom Molnar formerly owned K1 and I know that his current product under his own name is high quality. Is the current K1 product the same design and quality as it once was? Is it essentially the same product that he sells under his name now?
Lastly in a recent thread I made comparing different strokes with a 4.125 base bore, I saw many people mentioned Compstar rods and I’m assuming cranks to go with them. How do these stack up against the K1 or Molnar pieces?
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Great feedback, I’m leaning towards Molnar.needforspeed66gt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:58 am Tom Molnar's parts are top notch with the only limitation being the overseas 4340 steel vs the 4330VM which you'll get in the much more expensive rods.
There is a big difference in quality between Molnar/K1/Compstar and then Scat/Eagle - they are not finished the same and both Scat and Eagle products are quite a bit inferior in that regard - consistently they have pin bushings with "0" clearance, the big ends go out of round when you torque cycle the hardware, and the threads/bolt shoulder face are much rougher. As for the cranks, it's not even close, journal sizing is almost always messed up on the slightly cheaper imports vs. the first three I mentioned.
We're WD with both Molnar and Wiseco/K1 and I always pick Tom's parts because I'd much prefer to put the money in his company's pocket vs a huge conglomerate of companies...plus, I can actually talk personally to the owner rather than random phone monkeys.
Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
This is exactly the direction I think I’m going to go. Lightweight 3.875 Molnar crank, 6 inch Molnar stroker rods and either CP bullet flat tops or Mahle powerpak flat tops. Still uncertain which pistons, the CP bullets have deeper valve reliefs yielding 11.1:1 with my current 64cc heads vs 11.8:1 with the Mahle. But I will likely open the chambers just a bit with the larger bore than what they are now on my 4.060 bore. So that will likely put me in the 67 cc range. My current heads won’t be the long term plan for this short block anyhow so I’m apprehensive to pick pistons based on them. What are your thoughts on the CP bullet pistons vs Mahle powerpaks?needforspeed66gt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:01 pmSpecifically for this combo, I use the lightweight Molnar crank & rods along with better CP pistons (vs. the ancient Wiseco K and ProTru designs) with the 4.125" Dart SHP block, touch up a set of AFR 220cc heads and you have a long block that'll make a ton of power depending on your valve train setup for where you want it at.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:00 pm Been shopping around looking for different components for a 400+ sbc.
Have stumbled across what seems to be a pretty good deal through summit racing that is a Dart SHP 4.125 bore block with a K1 3.75” crank and K1 6” rods with Wiseco protru pistons.
I know that Tom Molnar formerly owned K1 and I know that his current product under his own name is high quality. Is the current K1 product the same design and quality as it once was? Is it essentially the same product that he sells under his name now?
Lastly in a recent thread I made comparing different strokes with a 4.125 base bore, I saw many people mentioned Compstar rods and I’m assuming cranks to go with them. How do these stack up against the K1 or Molnar pieces?
Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
I want to stay 4.125” bore so that I have the option of reboring it in the future. Trying to milk as much life span from the block as possible.BLOCKMAN wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:31 pmAt 4.185 bore Mahle has no piston.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:46 pmThis is exactly the direction I think I’m going to go. Lightweight 3.875 Molnar crank, 6 inch Molnar stroker rods and either CP bullet flat tops or Mahle powerpak flat tops. Still uncertain which pistons, the CP bullets have deeper valve reliefs yielding 11.1:1 with my current 64cc heads vs 11.8:1 with the Mahle. But I will likely open the chambers just a bit with the larger bore than what they are now on my 4.060 bore. So that will likely put me in the 67 cc range. My current heads won’t be the long term plan for this short block anyhow so I’m apprehensive to pick pistons based on them. What are your thoughts on the CP bullet pistons vs Mahle powerpaks?needforspeed66gt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:01 pm
Specifically for this combo, I use the lightweight Molnar crank & rods along with better CP pistons (vs. the ancient Wiseco K and ProTru designs) with the 4.125" Dart SHP block, touch up a set of AFR 220cc heads and you have a long block that'll make a ton of power depending on your valve train setup for where you want it at.
This is the Mahle part # I’m looking at. MAHLE PISTONS 930200925 FORGED FLAT TOP 4.125 BORE
Ps, could I get the block as well as the above rotating assembly from you fully machined and balanced? I’d like to do the assembly because I genuinely enjoy that part.
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Mahle makes a great piston, and they were my preference until CP came out with their Bullet line which have a nicer profile at the bottom of the skirt, and come with a superior NPR nitrited steel top ring and Napier 2nd combo vs. the moly ring pack used in the "Powerpack" line from Mahle...and I can sell them for cheaper than the Mahle. Been using them pretty much exclusively for the last almost five years.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:46 pmThis is exactly the direction I think I’m going to go. Lightweight 3.875 Molnar crank, 6 inch Molnar stroker rods and either CP bullet flat tops or Mahle powerpak flat tops. Still uncertain which pistons, the CP bullets have deeper valve reliefs yielding 11.1:1 with my current 64cc heads vs 11.8:1 with the Mahle. But I will likely open the chambers just a bit with the larger bore than what they are now on my 4.060 bore. So that will likely put me in the 67 cc range. My current heads won’t be the long term plan for this short block anyhow so I’m apprehensive to pick pistons based on them. What are your thoughts on the CP bullet pistons vs Mahle powerpaks?needforspeed66gt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:01 pmSpecifically for this combo, I use the lightweight Molnar crank & rods along with better CP pistons (vs. the ancient Wiseco K and ProTru designs) with the 4.125" Dart SHP block, touch up a set of AFR 220cc heads and you have a long block that'll make a ton of power depending on your valve train setup for where you want it at.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:00 pm Been shopping around looking for different components for a 400+ sbc.
Have stumbled across what seems to be a pretty good deal through summit racing that is a Dart SHP 4.125 bore block with a K1 3.75” crank and K1 6” rods with Wiseco protru pistons.
I know that Tom Molnar formerly owned K1 and I know that his current product under his own name is high quality. Is the current K1 product the same design and quality as it once was? Is it essentially the same product that he sells under his name now?
Lastly in a recent thread I made comparing different strokes with a 4.125 base bore, I saw many people mentioned Compstar rods and I’m assuming cranks to go with them. How do these stack up against the K1 or Molnar pieces?
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Yep, we call it a "Machine for Kit" - all machine work is done and ready for you to assemble, bearing oil clearance checking and mixing shells can be done by you if you have a good mic and dial bore gauge, or I can select fit the bearings and gap rings, etc....all depends on your level of confidence or what tools you have.
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
For the OP, I have been reading this and your other post regarding this engine build. I went through a similar go around recently with the idea of upgrading to something more durable than the stock block and crank engines I was building. My last stock based engine was a factory .060" over block,(412 ci), using the entry level Scat 5.7 bushed cap screw rods with KB flat tops and running on a factory crank. I beat it mercilessly for years, 7000 rpm burnouts, shifting always around 6500 to 7000 rpm, and crossing the finish line around 6400 rpm. Hundreds of passes, as many as a dozen or more on a single night. When I tore it down a few years ago, I measured the rods, (Scat ICR 5700), and both bushed ends and big ends were flawless. My point here is that any of the parts you mention are going to provide you with an engine that will be bullet proof. I did the same as you, looked at all of the possibilities of block, crank, and pistons, both entry level and more expensive and concluded that it would cost hundreds more to buy the stuff separate and have the machine work done than buy a Dart built short block from Competition Products. I have seen the 415 on sale for just over $4400 in the last couple of months. For about $150 more than the SHP 400, you can get the 415 Sportsman that comes with a Little M block, Callies rotating assembly, and Howards (Ross) pistons. If you like assembly work, You can take it apart and check everything, probably a good thing anyway. I had to clearance my rods to give me some extra room at the cam lobes. The Little M block is a significant step above the SHP. Dart blocks have wide main caps and many oil pans will not clear. The lifter bores are 0.30" taller requiring taller roller lifters.
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
The Mahle pistons we use are made in Morristown TN, USAMark O'Neal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:38 pm Well, if we're going to be picky on the import stuff.....Mahle is not an American company.
Or do you just mean "Chinese."
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Just have to say.. Glad you are back Big C.BLOCKMAN wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:23 pmThere might be a problem as the heads and package I have come up with I have about .080 P/V clearance, With a different head there maybe a problem.Mikej26 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:40 pmI want to stay 4.125” bore so that I have the option of reboring it in the future. Trying to milk as much life span from the block as possible.
This is the Mahle part # I’m looking at. MAHLE PISTONS 930200925 FORGED FLAT TOP 4.125 BORE
Ps, could I get the block as well as the above rotating assembly from you fully machined and balanced? I’d like to do the assembly because I genuinely enjoy that part.
I can set you up with what ever you want may have to with the CP pistons.
Also if your going with a light weight crank it may need Heavy Metal installed which can be expensive. You need rods that have plenty of cam to rod clearance.
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
Charliesauto wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:37 pmThe Mahle pistons we use are made in Morristown TN, USAMark O'Neal wrote: ↑Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:38 pm Well, if we're going to be picky on the import stuff.....Mahle is not an American company.
Or do you just mean "Chinese."
That's not what I said.
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Re: Molnar vs K1 vs compstar crank and rods
#MeToo....for the same reasons. That, and Tom is top notch people.needforspeed66gt wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:58 am Tom Molnar's parts are top notch with the only limitation being the overseas 4340 steel vs the 4330VM which you'll get in the much more expensive rods.
There is a big difference in quality between Molnar/K1/Compstar and then Scat/Eagle - they are not finished the same and both Scat and Eagle products are quite a bit inferior in that regard - consistently they have pin bushings with "0" clearance, the big ends go out of round when you torque cycle the hardware, and the threads/bolt shoulder face are much rougher. As for the cranks, it's not even close, journal sizing is almost always messed up on the slightly cheaper imports vs. the first three I mentioned.
We're WD with both Molnar and Wiseco/K1 and I always pick Tom's parts because I'd much prefer to put the money in his company's pocket vs a huge conglomerate of companies...plus, I can actually talk personally to the owner rather than random phone monkeys.