ARE ALL sbc 010 BLOCKS HIGH NICKEL????

[Lizardracing]

I have seen the cast 10 and 20 numbers in the timing area on 400 blocks.

I have one of these 010/020 400 blocks on my engine stand right now. It's for sale too.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I can't believe this rumor still floats round.

The ASTM recipes for grey iron do not call for any nickel. Furthermore short of converting it to steel, iron is best strengthened by adding small percentages of magnesium carbon etc to bring about spheroidal-moleculed ductile iron, of which no cylinder blocks are cast of which I am aware.

Back to the Nickel Block Rumor: Several years ago, I personally collected block material samples from both GM and FoMoCo for the purposes of putting this rumor to rest. The samples were prepared and tested in Silicon Valley under a half-million dollar Electron Microscope.



The results? There was no nickel in any of the grey iron Chevrolet & Ford cylinder block material samples that were tested, save for a bit of tramp alloy (ie, contaminant). In other words, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

What about the gold rods that are hidden in some of the oil passages?
Has anyone found any of those?

[cardo0]

I maybe missunderstanding something but an electron microscope doesn't measure anything. It just provides a visual of the crystalline structure(s). Well I used an electron scope in welding school and we even cut and polished the micro thin sections of steel to see the austenite and martensite crystalls.To find the chemical constituents one would need chemical samples of several locations to get a representative result. Not looking to argue but I haven't read anything here yet that does this. Someone else claimed they did a sample on a cast flash line but somehow that sample had no carbon in it. How credible is that?

So solve this we really just need to know what the numbers under the timing cover represent. The castings number is accurate and identifies the block application. The date cast number identifies when the block was produced and accurately. But the numbers under the timing covers are somehow meaningless and this is second or more likely third hand knowledge from a foundry worker.

All other numbers cast into the blocks had specific information. All but what's under the timing cover. My guess is they are proprietary information and still protect by GM and or the foundry. Patented or just plain protected.

Well that's my best guess on this. B.S ? Could well be. Just my guess here.

I'll just say thanks to all that spilled their guts contributing to this thread. It was really something to read and absorb.

[Greenlight]

I worked at an OEM and we had a SEM that would identify the chemistry of the metals.


Cut and pasted from this source:

https://www.labtesting.com/services/mat ... -analysis/


SEM Analysis with EDS Capabilities

Scanning Electron Microscopy (SEM) is a test process that scans a sample with an electron beam to produce a magnified image for analysis. The method is also known as SEM analysis and SEM microscopy, and is used very effectively in microanalysis and failure analysis of solid inorganic materials. Electron microscopy is performed at high magnifications, generates high-resolution images and precisely measures very small features and objects.
Laboratory Testing Inc. near Philadelphia, PA (USA) offers scanning electron microscope services, using a complete system that includes Energy Dispersive X-ray Spectroscopy (EDS) capabilities.

SEM Analysis Applications

The signals generated during SEM analysis produce a two-dimensional image and reveal information about the sample, including external morphology (texture), chemical composition, when used with the EDS feature, and orientation of materials making up the sample.
The EDS component of the system is applied in conjunction with SEM analysis to determine elements in or on the surface of the sample for qualitative information. It also measures elemental composition[/i] for semi-quantitative results and identifies foreign substances that are not organic in nature and coatings on metal.

[Kevin Johnson]

viewtopic.php?t=46186#p599682

As the electron beam from the SEM itself strikes the specimen surface, the electrons within the atoms of this area of interest are elevated to an excited state. When the electrons in these atoms then return to
their ground state, a characteristic x-ray is emitted. These x-rays are then gathered by the X-ray detector and converted into “useful” information. An image can, as described above, be generated but more
importantly, these x-rays emitted from the specimen give information as to the elemental composition of the area. As a result, the EDS technique can detect elements from carbon (C) to uranium (U) in quantities as low as 1.0 wt%. In combination with the SEM itself, the specific area of analysis for a given specimen of interest can be adjusted simply based on the magnification at which the specimen is being observed.

I maybe missunderstanding something but an electron microscope doesn't measure anything. It just provides a visual of the crystalline structure(s). Well I used an electron scope in welding school and we even cut and polished the micro thin sections of steel to see the austenite and martensite crystalls.To find the chemical constituents one would need chemical samples of several locations to get a representative result. Not looking to argue but I haven't read anything here yet that does this. Someone else claimed they did a sample on a cast flash line but somehow that sample had no carbon in it. How credible is that?

So solve this we really just need to know what the numbers under the timing cover represent. The castings number is accurate and identifies the block application. The date cast number identifies when the block was produced and accurately. But the numbers under the timing covers are somehow meaningless and this is second or more likely third hand knowledge from a foundry worker.

All other numbers cast into the blocks had specific information. All but what's under the timing cover. My guess is they are proprietary information and still protect by GM and or the foundry. Patented or just plain protected.

Well that's my best guess on this. B.S ? Could well be. Just my guess here.

I'll just say thanks to all that spilled their guts contributing to this thread. It was really something to read and absorb.

[Kevin Johnson]

Straight forward logic:

It has been demonstrated empirically that the claim that 010 and/or 020 necessarily indicates nickel content in the blocks in question is false.

It is also historical fact that nickel and chromium have been commonly used in cast iron engine blocks made by General Motors divisions.

At this point, even if an example is found of an 010 or 020 block with nickel, it does not validate the hypothesis.

[Itsjoe]

I can't believe this rumor still floats round. :lol:

The ASTM recipes for grey iron do not call for any nickel. Furthermore short of converting it to steel, iron is best strengthened by adding small percentages of magnesium carbon etc to bring about spheroidal-moleculed ductile iron, of which no cylinder blocks are cast of which I am aware.

Back to the Nickel Block Rumor: Several years ago, I personally collected block material samples from both GM and FoMoCo for the purposes of putting this rumor to rest. The samples were prepared and tested in Silicon Valley under a half-million dollar Electron Microscope.



The results? There was no nickel in any of the grey iron Chevrolet & Ford cylinder block material samples that were tested, save for a bit of tramp alloy (ie, contaminant). In other words, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

Small block Chevy high nickel myth busted! I work in a materials lab for an aerospace company. I removed a chip from a casting seam line and performed an SEM/EDS analysis on my 74 350 block casting # 3970010. Numbers under the timing cover are 010, 020, and 509, and discovered that it contains no measureable nickel or tin. This entire high nickel block legend is a hoax. My instrumentation is capable of detecting element concentrations as low as 0.1%. Grey metal cast iron contains carbon, silicon, and iron. If you add as little as 0.2% nickel it would no longer meet the ASTM requirements for cast iron and you would have to call the alloy something other than cast iron.

Pontiac made there cylinder heads and I believe the engine block as well with a substantial magnesium mix... In the late80's early 90's with there Pontiac Fiero, not for very long tho.. They had issues with running hot catching fire and then difficulties putting said fires out in a mid/rear engine fiberglass car with a chunk of magniseum burning in it... Simalur to phosphorus granades from the 40's and 50's

[RT Machine]

I've heard a lot of the 010/020 2482 cap blocks were used in heavy trucks, industrial, and military applications.

How do 2482 caps differ from other 4 bolt caps ?

[Ericnova]

I've heard a lot of the 010/020 2482 cap blocks were used in heavy trucks, industrial, and military applications.

How do 2482 caps differ from other 4 bolt caps ?

They are nodular iron instead of just plain grey iron.

[PackardV8]

Pontiac made there cylinder heads and I believe the engine block as well with a substantial magnesium mix... In the late80's early 90's with there Pontiac Fiero, not for very long tho.. They had issues with running hot catching fire and then difficulties putting said fires out in a mid/rear engine fiberglass car with a chunk of magniseum burning in it... Simalur to phosphorus granades from the 40's and 50's

First post, so Joe is trolling us, right?

[Kevin Johnson]

Pontiac made there cylinder heads and I believe the engine block as well with a substantial magnesium mix... In the late80's early 90's with there Pontiac Fiero, not for very long tho.. They had issues with running hot catching fire and then difficulties putting said fires out in a mid/rear engine fiberglass car with a chunk of magniseum burning in it... Simalur to phosphorus granades from the 40's and 50's

First post, so Joe is trolling us, right?

The culprit appears to be the deck engine vent which would have been exposed in a fire and have a relatively high surface area to volume ratio.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Arch ... .html#p164

[Truckedup]

I heard back then the Fiero fires were caused by sporty driving. The car could generate enough g force in a corner to uncover the oil pick up.....Then the rod came through the block and the oil spray caught fire...

[Kevin Johnson]

I heard back then the Fiero fires were caused by sporty driving. The car could generate enough g force in a corner to uncover the oil pick up.....Then the rod came through the block and the oil spray caught fire...

That's way more kool.

I found a pair of nice seats in a junkyard Fiero with speakers in the headrests. I was going to stick them in my Opel GT.

[falcongeorge]

I heard back then the Fiero fires were caused by sporty driving. The car could generate enough g force in a corner to uncover the oil pick up.....Then the rod came through the block and the oil spray caught fire...

This actually made me laugh out loud, so loud that my daughter asked what was so funny. The "010" and "020" under the timing cover actually serve the same main purpose as 4 bolt mains. They are there so guys who don't know sh*t about cars have something to talk loudly about at cruise nights.

[Truckedup]

From Automotive News
To fit the engine in the Fiero’s cramped engine bay, GM engineers reduced the size of the oil pan from four quarts to three. Because many drivers rarely checked the oil, when it ran low, trouble was instant and often fatal for the car.

In 1987, GM recalled 125,000 four-cylinder versions produced in the 1984 model year after engine fires occurred in one of every 400 cars. When the engine ran low on oil, connecting rods could blast through the side of the engine, spraying hot oil on the exhaust manifold, often resulting in a fire.

Roughly 20 percent of 1984 Fieros experienced engine bay fires, Autoweek reported in March 1988. GM made some alterations in that first recall, including one that raised oil capacity to four quarts