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SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Gregory
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SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by Gregory » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:01 pm

Here's the pop quiz for the week:
The School Of Automotive Machinist (SAM) came in a close second at the 2012 EMC with their 402 cu in SB2 in the Xtreme Street class.
The same engine was entered in the Race Engine Challenge (REC) in 2019 with only the following differences:
* The 2012 EMC engine had 15:1 compression, .800 lift (net I assume since there was no lift rule) and a tub oil pan.
* The 2019 REC engine had 11:9 compression, .775 zero lash cam lift rule and a stepped oil pan.
Yes they were on a different dyno, but we are confident they were both calibrated correctly.
Question: How much power did it lose in 2019 and how much average power did in lose between 4,000 and 7,500 RPM's.
What's your guess? The answers may surprise you and will be posted in a couple of days.
www.RaceEngineChallenge.com

408 Nova
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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by 408 Nova » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:02 pm

SAM's SB2.2 won Xtreme Street in 2012.

Gregory
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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by Gregory » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:27 pm

Correction: It was 2011 when they came in second. They won with that engine in 2012 when the RPM was upped to 8,000 RPM.

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by bob460 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:15 pm

Gregory wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:01 pm
Here's the pop quiz for the week:
The School Of Automotive Machinist (SAM) came in a close second at the 2012 EMC with their 402 cu in SB2 in the Xtreme Street class.
The same engine was entered in the Race Engine Challenge (REC) in 2019 with only the following differences:
* The 2012 EMC engine had 15:1 compression, .800 lift (net I assume since there was no lift rule) and a tub oil pan.
* The 2019 REC engine had 11:9 compression, .775 zero lash cam lift rule and a stepped oil pan.
Yes they were on a different dyno, but we are confident they were both calibrated correctly.
Question: How much power did it lose in 2019 and how much average power did in lose between 4,000 and 7,500 RPM's.
What's your guess? The answers may surprise you and will be posted in a couple of days.
www.RaceEngineChallenge.com
So how much power did it lose........ if any?

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by David Vizard » Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 pm

I think some might question my eligibility to guess at this since I have experience with both dyno's. I know the UNO dyno read slightly high for the 2012 shootout as we had an engine on it for another project for my BBC book - all to do with ex pipe lengths.

I am sort of hoping some of my critics may make a guese here to see if they show me up. Lets see. Anyway my guess here is about 30 Hp on peak with, over the test range involved, about 12 hp average. Now lets see if 500,000 plus dyno pull experience earns me any credits.

DV
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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by gmrocket » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:38 pm

-45.1 peak hp

-17 tq or -15.9tq eliminations and during the week

D
Last edited by gmrocket on Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by Walter R. Malik » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:02 pm

David Vizard wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 pm
I think some might question my eligibility to guess at this since I have experience with both dyno's. I know the UNO dyno read slightly high for the 2012 shootout as we had an engine on it for another project for my BBC book - all to do with ex pipe lengths.

I am sort of hoping some of my critics may make a guese here to see if they show me up. Lets see. Anyway my guess here is about 30 Hp on peak with, over the test range involved, about 12 hp average. Now lets see if 500,000 plus dyno pull experience earns me any credits.

DV
David, I don't know about dyno compatibility and the differences you found but, these were the numbers posted.

At the 2011 EMC Contest
... 813.1 H.P @ 7,100 RPM
... 660.0 lb/ft Torque @ 5,900 RPM

At the 2019 REC Contest
...780.8 H.P. @ 7,000 RPM
...644.1 lb/ft Torque @ 5,900 RPM
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by gmrocket » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:14 pm

best hp number i found for the 2019 rec was 788 for sam

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by CGT » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 am

The EMC dyno calibration has been all over the place through the years....
There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.
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Golf is a good walk spoiled.
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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by hoffman900 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:18 am

CGT wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:15 am
The EMC dyno calibration has been all over the place through the years....
This was my first thought when seeing the question.

Tuning 101, don't compare dynos.
-Bob

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:53 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:02 pm

David, I don't know about dyno compatibility and the differences you found but, these were the numbers posted.

At the 2011 EMC Contest
... 813.1 H.P @ 7,100 RPM
... 660.0 lb/ft Torque @ 5,900 RPM

At the 2019 REC Contest
...780.8 H.P. @ 7,000 RPM
...644.1 lb/ft Torque @ 5,900 RPM
These numbers were the posted average of the 3 best runs.
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by CGT » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:28 am

The cool thing about a dyno competition is that everyone competes on the same dyno regardless of how it reads... If you cant cut the mustard, there are no excuses or reasons to reference other dyno's.(although some make plenty)
There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.
Mark Twain

Golf is a good walk spoiled.
Mark Twain

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by bob460 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:24 am

David Vizard wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 5:22 pm
I think some might question my eligibility to guess at this since I have experience with both dyno's. I know the UNO dyno read slightly high for the 2012 shootout as we had an engine on it for another project for my BBC book - all to do with ex pipe lengths.

I am sort of hoping some of my critics may make a guese here to see if they show me up. Lets see. Anyway my guess here is about 30 Hp on peak with, over the test range involved, about 12 hp average. Now lets see if 500,000 plus dyno pull experience earns me any credits.

DV
Only 2.3hp off.......WOW..................the 500k plus pulls have paid off......nice work!!

How close could you get with a dyno proven combo if i gave you the specs?

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by Warp Speed » Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:00 am

500,000+ dyno pulls = 27+ pulls per day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for 50 years.
Impressive!

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Re: SAM's SB2 At The EMC And The REC

Post by hoffman900 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:47 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:00 am
500,000+ dyno pulls = 27+ pulls per day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for 50 years.
Impressive!
According to his book published in 2010, it was 200,000 :?
-Bob

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