Q16 or M5?

[David Redszus]

Lets compare M5 and Q16.

M1
RVP........4.6 psi
O2.........49.93%
SpG........0.795
Stoich.....6.45
B.P.........149F
MON........102
H of Vap....78.5 BTU/lb air
M1 is basically ordinary methanol.

M5
RVP........6.39 psi
O2.........48.13%
SpG........0.807
Stoich.....6.48
B.P.........149F approx
MON........102
H of Vap....78.5 approx BTU/lb air
M5 is ordinary methanol (90%), to which some gasoline (8-9%) and a tiny bit of nitromethane (1-3%) have been added.

Q16
RVP........5.54 psi
O2.........9.41%
SpG........0.720
Stoich.....13.33
B.P.........10%..152F
.............50%..173
.............90%..205
MON........116
H of Vap....9.8 BTU/lb air
Q16 consists of ETBE (30-60%), Isooctane 224 TMP (15-40%) and Isopentane (5-10%).
A s a fuel for non turbo engines it is clearly superior to either M! or M5.
It will not absorb water, provides better throttle response, higher MON octane, a richer mixture for jetting
but does not have the evaporative cooling properties of methanol.

[smeg]

Sorry david, I am comparing real world results with back to back testing on the track and on the dyno. I am not concerned with numbers on paper so as an experienced campainer, I have to disagree with you.

[David Redszus]

Sorry david, I am comparing real world results with back to back testing on the track and on the dyno. I am not concerned with numbers on paper so as an experienced campainer, I have to disagree with you.

I was merely stating facts relating to the properties of two fuels. What is it that you disagree with?

A disagreement based on facts moves us closer to the truth.

Comparing "real world results" smacks of a childish pissing contest.

[smeg]

I am not going to argue with you over this but I do think I can piss further than you.

[David Redszus]

I am not going to argue with you over this but I do think I can piss further than you.

Ok, you win the childish pissing contest.

Now what do you know about fuels?

[In-Tech]

Oy , David. Correct, it's a pissing contest of "oh I put this in my tank and I went faster" Focking BS when people can't or don't want to figure out the why.
Thanks for the data David

[smeg]

I am not going to argue with you over this but I do think I can piss further than you.

Ok, you win the childish pissing contest.

Now what do you know about fuels?

Me know about fuels? Nothing, I am just a hack. Forget what I said.

[David Redszus]

I am not going to argue with you over this but I do think I can piss further than you.

Ok, you win the childish pissing contest.

Now what do you know about fuels?

Me know about fuels? Nothing, I am just a hack. Forget what I said.

Agreed.

[David Redszus]

Lets compare M5 and Q16.

M1
RVP........4.6 psi
O2.........49.93%
SpG........0.795
Stoich.....6.45
B.P.........149F
MON........102
H of Vap....78.5 BTU/lb air
M1 is basically ordinary methanol.

M5
RVP........6.39 psi
O2.........48.13%
SpG........0.807
Stoich.....6.48
B.P.........149F approx
MON........102
H of Vap....78.5 approx BTU/lb air
M5 is ordinary methanol (90%), to which some gasoline (8-9%) and a tiny bit of nitromethane (1-3%) have been added.

Q16
RVP........5.54 psi
O2.........9.41%
SpG........0.720
Stoich.....13.33
B.P.........10%..152F
.............50%..173
.............90%..205
MON........116
H of Vap....9.8 BTU/lb air
Q16 consists of ETBE (30-60%), Isooctane 224 TMP (15-40%) and Isopentane (5-10%).
A s a fuel for non turbo engines it is clearly superior to either M! or M5.
It will not absorb water, provides better throttle response, higher MON octane, a richer mixture for jetting
but does not have the evaporative cooling properties of methanol.

One more little but interesting fact.
Q16 will produce the same heat energy as most any other race gas; 1273 BTU/lb air.
Methanol will produce very slightly (about +4%) more heat energy than Q16; 1325 vs 1273 BTU/lb air.

But methanol has over eight time the evaporative cooling ability of race gas, if it can be fully evaporated.

[KnightEngines]

Ok, you win the childish pissing contest.

Now what do you know about fuels?

Me know about fuels? Nothing, I am just a hack. Forget what I said.

Agreed.

You're gonna find that most of us that build & tune engines for a living couldn't give 2 sh/ts about what a piece of paper says.
We just care how much power it makes, how hard on parts it is, availability, cost & what we need to do with the motor to make the most of it.

[408 Nova]

Or something else?

For a small tire heads up class 2700 lb 68 Nova, 15:1 plus compression, sb2.2 shifting at 8500, 'Glide, and 4.10's.

Also, is it okay to have a gasoline/alcohol fuel system in the front of the car, as far as safety goes?

Australian super stock gas classes run pro stock truck engines 358 ci SB2.2 splayed and Wedge head deals
15.2,15.3 compression 9000 rpm etc
Up until the unleaded thing came in a couple of years ago they run ROO 16 , C25 with good success
We are talking around 900- 930 hp at the time.
Not sure what carb or carbs you are running but I would talk to Mark Whitener of Lightning racing carbs on this forum.
I think Q16 is a powerful fuel that requires more than a jet and air bleed change.
Would be interested in Mark's opinion.

Those engines y'all are running are almost exactly what I am building. Thank you for the concise information.

Mark Whitener is at the top of my carb list for sure.

[SpeierRacingHeads]

I'll add my .02

I try and talk everyone out of running methanol.

Q16 makes more power, in my experience, by a big number.

[ClassAct]

I'll add my .02

I try and talk everyone out of running methanol.

Q16 makes more power, in my experience, by a big number.

I switched to alcohol and MFI in 1988. One of the dumbest things I ever did while drag racing. Once I finally sorted out the MFI (which took 3 bypasses and all the tuning that goes with it) and once I had finalized injector location I realized I could have at the very worst done the same with 2 carbs and gasoline. I also learned guys who pick up a bunch switching to alcohol generally have a pretty poor gasoline tune up. And they don’t follow the weather close enough to be as consistent on gasoline as they are on alcohol. It was the same for my circle track customers. I had a bunch that wanted to make the change. All but two went back to gasoline. Alcohol has the benefit of having a much bigger tune up window than gas, but that’s the best thing I can say about it.

[jmarkaudio]

Having built and run a couple SB2.2's for drag racing, I ran the 447 on methanol, E85, race gas, aviation fuel, and Q16. Q16 is always fastest because of the efficiency of the heads. The 461 was dyno'ed on gas, E85 and Q16. 35 HP down on E85, 20 HP down on race gas over Q16. My best time on Q16 is about .04 faster than race gas in the 1/8 mile, 4.71 to 4.75. Mike Laws suggested C45, it will be faster all things tuned correctly, but you have to be very careful with it. It is low octane, and as a result you need to make sure if you run it the engine is never run under a heavy load around peak torque. Those who run it have converter stall well above peak torque. For an example, I would likely be able to run it as my peak torque is around 6100, my converter stalls 6900.

[408 Nova]

Great information here and thank you all.