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Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Sst3193
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by Sst3193 »

My Super D Duper engine builder always done his best to, slow the volume and pressure, of his 350 Super Stock engines. Always told me oil was drag and he wanted just enough to get to 1320 feet and NO more. When we built my Big Mopar engines all I ever used was standard replacement oil pumps. No oiling issues caused by pumps.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by rebelyell »

OP newbievetteguy

In your post elsewhere, It seems you're seeking 1:1 alum sbc pulleys.

speedway motors and other circle track suppliers have aluminum sbc crank-water pump pulley sets that are 1:1 ratio

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/SBC-Alum ... 11808.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... pulley+kit
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by dfarr67 »

What is a " ported Z28 Melling/rear gap"


And- rear main cap.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by skinny z »

dfarr67 wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 11:36 am ...ported Z28 Melling and ported rear cap.
I've heard plenty about the Shark Tooth pumps, both good and bad.
That said, I've the same "stockish" setup that you have. That's a Melling M55 ported pump and cap and have had zero issues. IIRC the Z28 part of all this is the white relief spring for a bump in pressure.
Excellent pressures despite some very high mileage on the rotating assembly.

Why fix something that isn't broken is what I'm saying.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by Walter R. Malik »

Talking with one of the Melling engineers at the PRI show, the "shark tooth" oil pump gears were designed to alleviate the higher amplitude pulsations that a normal SBC oil pump inherently produces.
He said, producing those those gears did exactly what it was intended to do but, never mentioned pressure.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by cgarb »

dfarr67 wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:21 pm
cgarb wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:51 pm I have the shark tooth pump in my 355, it's the one they claim as standard volume. It did have high oil pressure the first time I started it. It was over 90lbs when you would rev it. The pump came with 2 springs. I swapped out the spring for the lower pressure one and it helped. The spring that I put in by feel felt very similar to the spring in my old z28 pump. The one that was in it out of the box was noticably more stiff. Once I get heat in the motor and the oil gets up to temp it idles around 40lbs and it goes down the track a little over 65lbs. That's with SAE30 oil and a vacuum pump pulling 9 inches of vacuum. I'm not concerned with anything. Bronze distributor gear looks great after some use, so I'm just gonna keep on keeping on with it.
For street duty in a 383- I have a ported Z28 Melling/rear gap, in your opinion is it worth changing out to a ST- are they that good?
If you prime your engines with an electric drill or a speed wrench by hand there will be a noticable difference in feel. The pump turns noticably more smooth. That in my opinion makes it worth it. I had problems with 355 breaking pickup tubes. I tried several different aftermarket tubes, welded, not welded. Checked engine balance, new dampener...no luck. So I tried this pump as a last effort and so far so good.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

rebelyell wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am OP newbievetteguy

In your post elsewhere, It seems you're seeking 1:1 alum sbc pulleys.

speedway motors and other circle track suppliers have aluminum sbc crank-water pump pulley sets that are 1:1 ratio

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/SBC-Alum ... 11808.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... pulley+kit
True. Unfortunately, I have a 79 C3 Corvette and the 71-82 Corvettes have the weird Corvette water pumps and different pulley spacing AND distance between the pulley grooves vs a short or long water pump SBC pulley set and both March and CVF only sell underdriven Corvette pulley sets (.87 and .88).

One small manufacturer “Zoops” sold 1:1 alum pulley sets for them through the early to mid 2000s, but they were the last one. None of the generic Chinese mfgrs bother to make the Corvette pulleys.

The oem ratio was just under 1.1:1 water pump to crank, so I’m stuck with using the stock steel crank pulley or using the aluminum under driven pulleys and choosing a cooling system that cools better at low rpm than stock. (I already sold my oem crank pulleys and I’ve got a high flow water pump and thermostat and electric fans, so I’ll stick with the underdrive pulleys because its easier and I’m vain.) -If I could find a 1:1 aluminum 3 groove corvette pulley, I’d buy it, though… -I’m pretty patient and eventually someone will sell one of the Zoop pulleys and I’ll snatch it up.


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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:20 pm Talking with one of the Melling engineers at the PRI show, the "shark tooth" oil pump gears were designed to alleviate the higher amplitude pulsations that a normal SBC oil pump inherently produces.
He said, producing those those gears did exactly what it was intended to do but, never mentioned pressure.
I liked the idea that they reduce the jitter through the distributor to potentially help make ignition timing more accurate, too. But I ended up going with a 1x cam sync sensor and a 58x crank trigger wheel so I don't think there's any advantage to me there with a lowly 1x cam sync signal.


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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by dfarr67 »

Walter R. Malik wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:20 pm Talking with one of the Melling engineers at the PRI show, the "shark tooth" oil pump gears were designed to alleviate the higher amplitude pulsations that a normal SBC oil pump inherently produces.
He said, producing those those gears did exactly what it was intended to do but, never mentioned pressure.
I looked into this awhile ago and deemed it not worth replacing existing hardware. Maybe needed to replace pump or a new engine might get a ST, new for SBC- but an oem gear style on many others.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by rebelyell »

You said earlier that zoops ship has sailed.
A clever fellow can move the hub fore-aft on wp shaft; I have and I don't always remember where I parked.
Also spacers/shims are available for both crank & pump pulleys.
One way or another (or in combo), you should be able to use the circle track pulley set & either move the hub, shim/space the pulley(s) or have your local machinist face a little off of one or both pulleys.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

rebelyell wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 8:29 pm You said earlier that zoops ship has sailed.
A clever fellow can move the hub fore-aft on wp shaft; I have and I don't always remember where I parked.
Also spacers/shims are available for both crank & pump pulleys.
One way or another (or in combo), you should be able to use the circle track pulley set & either move the hub, shim/space the pulley(s) or have your local machinist face a little off of one or both pulleys.
Yes. I have a crank trigger wheel so I've already had to space my pulleys and have shims for the water pump and an adjustable bracket for the power steering pump. The problem according to CVF is that the distance between the grooves are different in "Corvette" SBC pumps vs. short or long pumps, so if you mix-and-match then you end up throwing belts. (I found a generic Chinese 3 groove crank pulley of stock diamter that I wanted to use so I asked CVF if their normal SBC short crank pulley could just be spaced differently to work with the rest of the pulleys being Short pulleys and I was then told that the spacing between the v-belt grooves was different, too.)


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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by 2Quickrides »

NewbVetteGuy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:26 pm Yes. I have a crank trigger wheel so I've already had to space my pulleys and have shims for the water pump and an adjustable bracket for the power steering pump. The problem according to CVF is that the distance between the grooves are different in "Corvette" SBC pumps vs. short or long pumps, so if you mix-and-match then you end up throwing belts. (I found a generic Chinese 3 groove crank pulley of stock diamter that I wanted to use so I asked CVF if their normal SBC short crank pulley could just be spaced differently to work with the rest of the pulleys being Short pulleys and I was then told that the spacing between the v-belt grooves was different, too.)
Adam
As long as the groove spacing on the multi groove pulleys (crank and wp) match then the rest can be shimmed and adjusted to line up using regular short pulleys. After messing with them and getting tired of the lack of ratio selection and Corvette fee (I have a 72) for everything, when I had to replace the water pump I just got a short one and replaced all the pulleys with the standard short ones (Realigning everything of course).
You can use standard short pulleys on the Vette pump (It's only 0.177" further out than the short pumps) but will need to open up the shaft hole as the vette pump is 3/4" shaft vs the 5/8" standard.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

2Quickrides wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 9:55 am
NewbVetteGuy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 9:26 pm Yes. I have a crank trigger wheel so I've already had to space my pulleys and have shims for the water pump and an adjustable bracket for the power steering pump. The problem according to CVF is that the distance between the grooves are different in "Corvette" SBC pumps vs. short or long pumps, so if you mix-and-match then you end up throwing belts. (I found a generic Chinese 3 groove crank pulley of stock diamter that I wanted to use so I asked CVF if their normal SBC short crank pulley could just be spaced differently to work with the rest of the pulleys being Short pulleys and I was then told that the spacing between the v-belt grooves was different, too.)
Adam
As long as the groove spacing on the multi groove pulleys (crank and wp) match then the rest can be shimmed and adjusted to line up using regular short pulleys. After messing with them and getting tired of the lack of ratio selection and Corvette fee (I have a 72) for everything, when I had to replace the water pump I just got a short one and replaced all the pulleys with the standard short ones (Realigning everything of course).
You can use standard short pulleys on the Vette pump (It's only 0.177" further out than the short pumps) but will need to open up the shaft hole as the vette pump is 3/4" shaft vs the 5/8" standard.
Great point; thanks.
I bought the CVF racing Corvette-specific set, not realizing just how under-driven the pulleys were (they didn't advertise them as underdriven), so I was HOPING to just buy a single standard diameter crank pulley and then learned that's not really possible. Agreed that the smart way to go would be to just switch over everything to short pulleys and a normal short water pump all at once.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by Bill Chase »

NewbVetteGuy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am
rebelyell wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am OP newbievetteguy

In your post elsewhere, It seems you're seeking 1:1 alum sbc pulleys.

speedway motors and other circle track suppliers have aluminum sbc crank-water pump pulley sets that are 1:1 ratio

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/SBC-Alum ... 11808.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... pulley+kit
True. Unfortunately, I have a 79 C3 Corvette and the 71-82 Corvettes have the weird Corvette water pumps and different pulley spacing AND distance between the pulley grooves vs a short or long water pump SBC pulley set and both March and CVF only sell underdriven Corvette pulley sets (.87 and .88).

One small manufacturer “Zoops” sold 1:1 alum pulley sets for them through the early to mid 2000s, but they were the last one. None of the generic Chinese mfgrs bother to make the Corvette pulleys.

The oem ratio was just under 1.1:1 water pump to crank, so I’m stuck with using the stock steel crank pulley or using the aluminum under driven pulleys and choosing a cooling system that cools better at low rpm than stock. (I already sold my oem crank pulleys and I’ve got a high flow water pump and thermostat and electric fans, so I’ll stick with the underdrive pulleys because its easier and I’m vain.) -If I could find a 1:1 aluminum 3 groove corvette pulley, I’d buy it, though… -I’m pretty patient and eventually someone will sell one of the Zoop pulleys and I’ll snatch it up.


Adam
Helping a buddy get his 78 c3 back together, for kicks I threw the serpentine crank, water pump pulleys on his engine as we were getting it ready to drop in. To our surprise the power steering pump bracket all of the 90-91 c4 accessories bolted right up. Once you swap to that setup march performance and others have various under/over drive pulley combos. Not to mention the c4 p.s.pump is lighter, the cs130 alternator is higher output. Should take a few pounds off the nose of the car, you can find the 85-91 y body accessories pretty cheap, so many are doing LS swap.
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Re: Melling SharkTooth Oil Pumps and High Pressures: Is this a problem?

Post by NewbVetteGuy »

Bill Chase wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:32 am
NewbVetteGuy wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:30 am
rebelyell wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:34 am OP newbievetteguy

In your post elsewhere, It seems you're seeking 1:1 alum sbc pulleys.

speedway motors and other circle track suppliers have aluminum sbc crank-water pump pulley sets that are 1:1 ratio

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/SBC-Alum ... 11808.html

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... pulley+kit
True. Unfortunately, I have a 79 C3 Corvette and the 71-82 Corvettes have the weird Corvette water pumps and different pulley spacing AND distance between the pulley grooves vs a short or long water pump SBC pulley set and both March and CVF only sell underdriven Corvette pulley sets (.87 and .88).

One small manufacturer “Zoops” sold 1:1 alum pulley sets for them through the early to mid 2000s, but they were the last one. None of the generic Chinese mfgrs bother to make the Corvette pulleys.

The oem ratio was just under 1.1:1 water pump to crank, so I’m stuck with using the stock steel crank pulley or using the aluminum under driven pulleys and choosing a cooling system that cools better at low rpm than stock. (I already sold my oem crank pulleys and I’ve got a high flow water pump and thermostat and electric fans, so I’ll stick with the underdrive pulleys because its easier and I’m vain.) -If I could find a 1:1 aluminum 3 groove corvette pulley, I’d buy it, though… -I’m pretty patient and eventually someone will sell one of the Zoop pulleys and I’ll snatch it up.


Adam
Helping a buddy get his 78 c3 back together, for kicks I threw the serpentine crank, water pump pulleys on his engine as we were getting it ready to drop in. To our surprise the power steering pump bracket all of the 90-91 c4 accessories bolted right up. Once you swap to that setup march performance and others have various under/over drive pulley combos. Not to mention the c4 p.s.pump is lighter, the cs130 alternator is higher output. Should take a few pounds off the nose of the car, you can find the 85-91 y body accessories pretty cheap, so many are doing LS swap.
That's really good advice and unexpected. Thanks Bill!

I've already replaced most of my accessories with V-belt-based replacements, though, so it's too late for me to take this advice, but it might be useful to someone stumbling across this thread in the future.

I've gone to a polished aluminum CS144 alt, aluminum high flow water pump, and a probably heaver chrome CVF PS pump (because I'm vain), and a bunch of random Summit aluminum brackets that I had to grind and tweak to make fit (crank trigger wheel was in the way a LOT).

-Piecing everything together one accessory, bracket, and pulley at a time has been slow and painful. At first I couldn't understand why anyone would pay the price for a front accessory kit... Starting to get it; lol!

Adam
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