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Clover Lapping Compound

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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skinny z
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Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

Somewhere in a not to recent post there was a discussion about lapping valves. More of a check to see if the old valve job was still holding up.
The hot ticket was suggested as being Clover brand (now Loctite I believe).
I've come across a dozen tins of the stuff and am asking which grit is best suited? The collection includes everything from 100 to 1000.
Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Found this after posting.
ProPower engines wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:57 pm
Clover brand has been the standard for overv 50years. Permatex also has a lapping compound.600 grit would be the absolute coarsest grit (a Finer grit would be better)if just checking the seat contact prior to back cutting a valve.
Does this still hold true?
I've 600, 800 and 1000 grit to work with.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by ClassicComp »

I use 800 grit
results speak for themselves
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by lefty o »

any non-embedding compound should do the trick.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by PackardV8 »

You do you, but I know some of the best head builders in the world won't let lapping compound in their shop. Their contention is it's almost impossible to get all of it rinsed out.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by BOOT »

Tried some of the Permatex 80036 Valve Grinding Compound 4 Grit In One tube 120 150 180 220 and it seemed to work fine at first but then left grooves. Must of got some of the finer grit at first then some courser that made the grooves.

I read somewhere the Permatex was like 80grit, so decided to get the Clover 39598 kit 120 & 280 to try also. But since I found out the permatex had four girts and the lowest was 120, I've not used the Clover stuff yet.

Typically find mixed opinions on stuff like this and only relevant info after I make a purchase LOL I got some meh heads that I still wanna try n diy lap, but not sure when I'll get to them.
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skinny z
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

PackardV8 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:23 pm You do you, but I know some of the best head builders in the world won't let lapping compound in their shop. Their contention is it's almost impossible to get all of it rinsed out.
I've read similar. Probably here as well.
I've also seen layout used (Larry Meaux posted a couple of pictures) but he still set up in his seat cutter tooling. I'm not certain his results could be duplicated with a simple suction cup as a spinner.
Last edited by skinny z on Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

BOOT wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:28 pm Tried some of the Permatex 80036 Valve Grinding Compound 4 Grit In One tube 120 150 180 220 and it seemed to work fine at first but then left grooves. Must of got some of the finer grit at first then some courser that made the grooves.

I read somewhere the Permatex was like 80grit, so decided to get the Clover 39598 kit 120 & 280 to try also. But since I found out the permatex had four girts and the lowest was 120, I've not used the Clover stuff yet.

Typically find mixed opinions on stuff like this and only relevant info after I make a purchase LOL I got some meh heads that I still wanna try n diy lap, but not sure when I'll get to them.
800 or 1000 here for the iron heads.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by Dan Timberlake »

"non-embedding compound"

The late great Gordon Jennings mentioned that in some of his tech articles.
I figured that was having fun with the new guys, like a left handed monkey wrench, bucket of steam, gasket stretcher, snipe hunt, etc.

I think any abrasive will embed in aluminum or copper, maybe a little bit in an uncoated steel valve, but probably not much in a modern hard valve seat.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by BOOT »

"non-embedding compound"

Reminds me of a post I made on a machinist forum years ago asking bout what hone grit to use for some cast iron holes. Several proceeded to tell me how I'd never get the girt out and maybe it would never be all out But people hone valve guides, cylinder bores and mains everyday! While in this day n age there may be better alternatives, some things still work fine enough for general use.

I've read plenty of valve lapping discussions and usually someone post bout grit embedded and modern this n so on. I doubt I'd ever lap new seats & valves myself But used stuff(in good enough condition), I'll give it shot someday. I'll prob use a throw away valve tho to do the seats and either lightly lap the used valves after or put new ones in for the heads I wanna do.

This is targeted at no one, just a general reply :)
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by BCjohnny »

skinny z wrote:Somewhere in a not to recent post there was a discussion about lapping valves. More of a check to see if the old valve job was still holding up
If all you're trying to do is create a 'witness' then use something fine, at least 800 grit

You'll get the usual opinions about 'lapping', as if it's all one and the same thing which it's not, as you understand ..... as long as you're not trying to 'correct' any machining with it you won't go far wrong

I'm sad enough to make my own ..... never found a shop bought product that even came close to being usable without doping it in some way ...... IIRC the average particle size is around 0.0005"

So even if you had the inclination, you're not lapping anything 'in' in the accepted sense any time soon, and I've never had an issue with clean up
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

BCjohnny wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:16 pm
skinny z wrote:Somewhere in a not to recent post there was a discussion about lapping valves. More of a check to see if the old valve job was still holding up
If all you're trying to do is create a 'witness' then use something fine, at least 800 grit

So even if you had the inclination, you're not lapping anything 'in' in the accepted sense any time soon, and I've never had an issue with clean up
Yeah. That's it. I'm just looking for a visual indicator as to the condition after a few thousand miles.
Even if just for my own satisfaction, I'd like to know how wide and where the shop cut the seats in the first place. When the valve job was fresh out of the shop my job was to assemble and get the springs right. I never double checked their work.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

PackardV8 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:23 pm You do you, but I know some of the best head builders in the world won't let lapping compound in their shop. Their contention is it's almost impossible to get all of it rinsed out.
I suppose the question is, what do you do to determine the results of a valve job? Or the inspection of an existing one?
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by KnightEngines »

I don't have any lapping compound in the shop.
When I do heads for other shops they sometimes ask if they should lap the seats lightly before assembly - I tell them I'll be pissed if they do!

Prussian blue to check a valve job, blue the valve, tap on seat, clean the valve, tap on seat again & the blue will transfer back to the valve & give a nice indicator.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by skinny z »

KnightEngines wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:05 pm I don't have any lapping compound in the shop.
When I do heads for other shops they sometimes ask if they should lap the seats lightly before assembly - I tell them I'll be pissed if they do!

Prussian blue to check a valve job, blue the valve, tap on seat, clean the valve, tap on seat again & the blue will transfer back to the valve & give a nice indicator.
I was just going to ask for the methodology if using layout dye.
So no rotation of the valve required?
It's concentricity, width and placement I'd like to see.
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Re: Clover Lapping Compound

Post by lefty o »

KnightEngines wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:05 pm I don't have any lapping compound in the shop.
When I do heads for other shops they sometimes ask if they should lap the seats lightly before assembly - I tell them I'll be pissed if they do!

Prussian blue to check a valve job, blue the valve, tap on seat, clean the valve, tap on seat again & the blue will transfer back to the valve & give a nice indicator.
in a pinch, magic marker will also work.
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