Tell me about the 5.0 HO, 85 to 95.

[Tom68]

What I know. long skinny runners for the injected version, can't make power up high.

Cam 266 266 211 211 .444 .444 115.

Low flowing heads, but it is only 5 litres.

What did the early 2 and 4 barrel ones go like compared to the injected ones ?

I see Richard Holdener put a performer and heads on one and made 368 HP and it was still strong at 6400.

Motor trend claimed 400HP with a stock cam. https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ford- ... e-buildup/

Which led me to this one where F165 doesn't believe a motor can raise its horsepower peak unless the cam is changed.

https://youtu.be/a-S5s1d2y4c

Even 368 sounds pretty good for that cam with no frills aftermarket heads.

I did do a set of pipes for one with aftermarket heads but standard bolt pattern.

20230324_194814.jpg

[Racer71]

Old school trick flows were the ticket, not sure what heads are available today and how they stack up. Stock blocks were only good for around 500 before they split, been there dome that. Exhaust ports on the stock heads were the worst. The heads off of the later 5.0 explorer known as GT40P heads were among the best iron heads available but required the complementary intake manifold.

[EDC]

Couple of things to clarify....

Not all stock Ford 5.0L camshaft were ground to those specs. There is a lot of internet bovine feces about the 1988 being better or the speed density is bigger but that's all hype. When "required" to use a stock camshaft in a class I raced in, we ran close to 50 stock, junkyard camshafts on the Cam Pro to find the "best" one. That one actually came out of a 1991 engine so that proved the internet experts to be wrong. On a side note, the Tech department confiscated that camshaft at the end of the season and then contacted Comp and Bullet to manufacture the "spec" camshaft.

The other item is the AFR 165 heads making 400 on Westech's dyno. I've "heard" through the Mustang grapevine that the dyno was out of kilter and they removed that particular test. Can't say for sure but I doubt the number, especially after seeing the components used on that test.

Anything spewed from a BoobTube celebrity doesn't pass the smell test to me. Most of the content is more hype than fact and used to get clicks and likes more than providing real results. Just one guy's opinion.

The NHRA Stock Eliminator guys seem to make these stock head and intake combinations work well but they also don't run them in the stratosphere RPM ranges.

Back in 2000-2001, did up a stock 1993 short block with fly-cut hyper pistons and made 413+/- RWHP with a set of ported "early" Twisted Wedge heads, Holley SysteMAX 2 intake and a hydraulic roller camshaft with about 250° or so, with only .500" lift. Other racers made even more with better stuff but this was the back while the real engine was being finished.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Back in 1993, I had a 91 LX Notch that I got into the 12's with only a few mods. Never had the valve covers off of it. Loved that car.

[jake197000]

Got an 87 gt conv.331 supercharged 600 hp had it for 34 years drive it hard no problems

[Joe-71]

91 LX 5.0 stock shortblock with my ported E-7 heads, ported HO lower, cut plenum and ported/welded back, 5psi Vortec 10.75/133 with AC, and completely stock interior. Broke 28 spline axles and went to 31 splines, no more problems.

[juuhanaa]

I like reading things like this that give pointers on different ways to make exhausts work, perhaps similar?

What does a pair of Doug's Headers stepped Tri-Y header which incorporates stepped 1-5/8-to-1-3/4-inch primary tubes look like? I mean does it go as a 1-3/4 inch pipe to the next branch or better yet the collector?

Cam 266 266 211 211 .444 .444 115. Does this single pattern cam work better on higher rpm with a tri y headers vs 4-1?



-juhana

[juuhanaa]

Tell me about the 5.0 HO, 85 to 95.

Well thats an interesting looking manifold restriction. I got one for training.. Sawing time! Then some measuring, almost there..

IMG20230327135604.jpg

-juhana

[Rick!]

EDC has plenty to good info on the 5.0.
To answer Tom68's questions directly;
The 2bbl Mustangs ran out of breath early.
The 4bbl versions with the factory Holley were better but still ran out of breath on top.
I don't recall any FI Mustangs that came across my chassis dyno back then so I can't speak to them.
From what I remember, the easy button on the 5.0 was to throw on a set of 351W heads, add a cam, good intake, a bigger Holley and a decent exhaust with headers and it went very well.
Once these showed up at our autocrosses, I had to upgrade my SBC Trans Am again to stay competitive.
This was all between '86-'88.

[Joe-71]

A couple of points: The GT-40P heads use the Cobra style lower, and explorer upper, which is compatible with all E-7 HO builds, but do require a different header design. It is the header and spark plug location that is different, not the intake manifolds. The E-7 with larger valves, matching spring packages, and porting will match either the GT-40 or GT-40P in flow after porting all three of them. I have ported hundreds of those heads and intakes over the years for folks all over the USA. The J-302 heads(230cfm) were marginally better than a ported E-7, and the TFS/KPI heads as cast were 35 cfm better than the J-302. I have ported the TFS/KPI heads to flow 330+ with a 2.020 intake valve, and 240+ with a 1.6 exhaust valve and no pipe. The E-303 camshaft is excellent for a street build and AC, PS, etc., but there are other cams available that make more power such as the F-303, X-303, and I shy away from the B-303. The shortcoming that we encountered with the HO was getting the fuel system to not cut out at 6200 rpm just when the 302 was pulling hard. I was one of the first, if not the first to cut the Plenum apart and port them, and when dyno tested, made an additional 18tq/18hp on the dyno. There were several magazine articles about the port work in Muscle Mustangs, Super Ford, and Mustang Monthly during those years. Joe-71

[EDC]

There is no such thing as a good FMS "letter" camshaft. They are all door stops.

Cutting up a stock intake was done as soon as those HO EFI engines came out. Most didn't work well as the cross section of the manifold was the bottleneck, not the runner length. There's only so much material available to remove. A correctly ported HO intake can work well, if the balance of the components are matched to the RPM these pieces were designed for. Back in 87-88, using a set of ported E7 heads, a ported HO intake and a 230° camshaft put a customer's LX well into the mid elevens.

The trick for more power back then was the cut-up truck EFI intake. Where it found it's place in the racing venue, in most cases, was coupled with some type of forced induction. Remove that long, curved truck upper and bolt on a Saleen/Vortech upper and it was a whole other thing. Holley plagiarized this design with the SysteMAX II intake. Which, BTW, it still the best long runner EFI intake for an 8.2 deck combination.

When the cast iron World heads came out, there were a lot of ported 289 and 351W heads thrown to the wayside. Other than the iron High-Ports, these were the go-to heads when the 5.0 market was booming. A lot has changed over the past thirty plus years!

[juuhanaa]

I measured a few volumes using water and a scale, found that there is none such thing Ill take the lengths later..

plenum; 2170cc

upper cylinders 1-8; 243cc

lower
cylinder 1; 173cc,
cylinders 2-4, 6 and 8; 153cc
cylinder 5; 189cc
cylinder 7; 163cc

D70E head 126cc

IMG20230327174941.jpg

IMG20230327161729.jpg

Screenshot_2023-03-27-19-13-53-00_92460851df6f172a4592fca41cc2d2e6.jpg

IMG20230327183735.jpg

-juhana

[juuhanaa]

upper centerline lengths; 8,86in and 1,674in2 area on average

lower centerline length cylinder 1; 6,4in
------------------//------------------ 2; 5,51in
------------------//------------------ 5; 6,89in
------------------//------------------ 7; 5,91in
= 5,84in and 1,685in2 area on average for the lower ones

D70E intake port centerline length; 5,12in and 1,502in2 area on average

D70E exhaust port at the manifold flange; 1,3in2 tiny!

IMG20230327212111.jpg

5.0 HO Helmholtz.png

I have never compared the calculation done for V8s to the real world.



-juhana

[Joe-71]

If you care to look at the pictures above, you will see that the HO plenum can be ported to flow 300 cfm in every runner, and opened up to 75 MM. That particular intake and plenum has the ports the same size as the 351HO engine that I used for template. I ported several of those for folks back in '87-2000 for Mustangs, Broncos, and Thunderbirds. When I cut open the plenums, I also did airflow study of how the air turned into the runners from the throttle body. I shortened the runners at an angle to allow for turning, and that showed up in the System Max shortly afterwards. Coincidence? Those box plenums were terrible for street driving unless you were boosted. The Comp Cams plastic box had two ports that did not have a radius, and the flow was terrible on those two. Not to argue, but I ported about 10 sets of heads for Jimmy LaRocca who was the first into the 9s with a HO mustang. Joe-71

[juuhanaa]

If you care to look at the pictures above, you will see that the HO plenum can be ported to flow 300 cfm in every runner, and opened up to 75 MM. That particular intake and plenum has the ports the same size as the 351HO engine that I used for template. I ported several of those for folks back in '87-2000 for Mustangs, Broncos, and Thunderbirds. When I cut open the plenums, I also did airflow study of how the air turned into the runners from the throttle body. I shortened the runners at an angle to allow for turning, and that showed up in the System Max shortly afterwards. Coincidence? Those box plenums were terrible for street driving unless you were boosted. The Comp Cams plastic box had two ports that did not have a radius, and the flow was terrible on those two. Not to argue, but I ported about 10 sets of heads for Jimmy LaRocca who was the first into the 9s with a HO mustang. Joe-71

Thank you, good info.

Can i ask how much cam you had when it felt bad for the street? A restrictive "box type manifold" on my 4 banger was a terrible with a 286@seat intake, but i didn't even bother trying to tune it. The same cam on throttle bodies works very well.



-juhana