401 sbc ready for the Dyno

[HQM383]

406.jpg

Prompts me to ask what kind if crankcase ventilation do you run? Once it's street driven, will you incorporate a PCV valve? Maybe a vacuum pump?

PCV with inline air/oil separator. That carb is a Race Demon with no vacuum provisions. Two other carbs are Mighty Demon and they will have the pcv plumbed in

[barnym17]

I've seen where Big Joe and others have always had power losses with the extreme lid but also saw where power masters I think found that also and taped up the round filter and pulled only thru the lid and power picked right back up to match dyno's airflow hat alone. They theorized both this and the turbine sent the air straight down the carbs throat eliminating air buffeting when entering from both sides and top of carb.All I can say is your already on the dyno try it and let us know please?

[HQM383]

Cool.
There are several accounts of success stories but there's no telling how skewed those results might be.

It's possible to overcome the harsh environment the electronics have to live in inside a distributor cap but it's that tech support that gives me cause to question. That said, Progressive seems to have withstood the Covid crushing that took out other manufacturers so I'll say that's a good sign.

It would be handy to have a dial-in style of ignition curve accessibility. The springs, weights, limiter bushings, vacuum advance tuning has gotten pretty old. I'd love to move on.

It's the ease and mapping flexibility that make it so attractive for me. And I personally like an inductive type ignition for a street car more than CD. That being said I still carry my old reliable Mallory in the trunk as a backup

Ease is what I'm after.
As of right now, an ancient MSD distributor with an almost as old 6AL box with a Blaster coil run my show. An upgrade may happen by default at any time.

After using the Progression Ignition on the dyno this afternoon I don't know why they are not more widely used (actually I do know why. Fear of the unknown). Do yourself a favour skinny and invest in one next time an ignition upgrade is due. Example, engine was under load on the dyno @ around 2500rpm with 24 degrees of timing. Add 4 degrees to 28*, hit send and watch what torque output does.

[HQM383]

Pulled the string this afternoon and all good so far. Fired up straight away. Confirmed the Progression Ignition distributor was doing what it was telling us it was doing. Done this by setting up a table as 20* locked in and set 1000rpm idle at 20* on the balancer. Reduced to 15* on timing table app and sent to distributor. Timing now said 15* on balancer with timing light. Thumbs up to distributor doing what it says it is doing. Went through some load cycles then shut it down for some checks. Not a hint of oil anywhere so quite happy to be leak free. Checked hot lash. Cold I set at .014" and that nailed the hot .018" intake. Opened up the exhaust to .020" as per card. Carb set up was just about spot on. Started playing with timing table. Went from 23* to 29* @ 3500rpm. Liked 27* where it was putting out 444ft/lb with air cleaner on. Without air cleaner it just touched 450ft/lb @ 3500rpm (but from memory that was after opening exhaust lash by .002" so two contributors there to the 6ft/lb). Didn't go any higher than 3500rpm. We'll dial it up a bit more tomorrow.

[skinny z]

It's the ease and mapping flexibility that make it so attractive for me. And I personally like an inductive type ignition for a street car more than CD. That being said I still carry my old reliable Mallory in the trunk as a backup

Ease is what I'm after.
As of right now, an ancient MSD distributor with an almost as old 6AL box with a Blaster coil run my show. An upgrade may happen by default at any time.

After using the Progression Ignition on the dyno this afternoon I don't know why they are not more widely used (actually I do know why. Fear of the unknown). Do yourself a favour skinny and invest in one next time an ignition upgrade is due. Example, engine was under load on the dyno @ around 2500rpm with 24 degrees of timing. Add 4 degrees to 28*, hit send and watch what torque output does.

It's high up on the list. (But the list is long....)

[treyrags]

I've seen where Big Joe and others have always had power losses with the extreme lid but also saw where power masters I think found that also and taped up the round filter and pulled only thru the lid and power picked right back up to match dyno's airflow hat alone. They theorized both this and the turbine sent the air straight down the carbs throat eliminating air buffeting when entering from both sides and top of carb.All I can say is your already on the dyno try it and let us know please?

The only way they actually hurt is if they are too close to the carb vent tubes. IMO no closer than ~1-1/2". I've run one for 5 years that is ~1" away from the vents along with a vent "flute" that connects the vents just for insurance against turbulence at the vent openings. I've done a-b-a test at the track and there was zero difference.

[HQM383]

Dialed it up a bit more today. So far it has seen 530ft/lb @ 4750rpm and 548hp @ 6250rpm.
Only using 98 RON pump fuel and air cleaner on.

Some issues to address though. Probably a no brainer but doesn’t like the 2.5” collector extensions. Will get some 3” made up. Only coil wire on hand was an oem replacement deal. Was breaking down a little getting near 6.5k. Fit a better one tomorrow. Carb a bit rich so go down in jetting tomorrow. Between carb and exhaust the WOT up around 6k+ manifold vacuum too high, data showing 2.0hg.
Looking promising when those things are addressed. After those changes will work the Ignition table a bit more and then change up carburetors. Great watching affect on torque in real time sending the distributor timing changes while the engine is running.



Reminder; simulation predicted 527ft/lb @ 5000rpm and 558hp between 6 and 6.5k.

[HQM383]

A bit more on the Progression Ignition. On the table below there are some conspicuous 34* at 2000rpm. When warming the engine up today it was sitting steady at 2000rpm and 60kpa area. Those two squares were 25*. We added timing to just that area and watched the effect on torque real time. Went as high as 36* then came back to 34*. That alone gained 14ft/lb at that rpm under that load. Going to be well worth the while to work on other areas of the table. So far the area from 3000rpm to 7000rpm in the 86 to 101kpa area (top right) has been worked. Engine likes 31* total, 32* down a couple hp. Springs and weights, no thanks.

[KnightEngines]

You got a spacer under the carb?
They can help drop intake vac.
But at 2" it definitely wants a bigger carb.

3" collectors are a definite.

Looking real good so far!

I wouldn't bother dialling in that carb, go for the biggest you got & dial that in, but do collector extensions 1st, they will affect the tune.

Methinks it'll got 565 or so with more carb, 3" collectors & some fine tuning.

[steve cowan]

I've seen where Big Joe and others have always had power losses with the extreme lid but also saw where power masters I think found that also and taped up the round filter and pulled only thru the lid and power picked right back up to match dyno's airflow hat alone. They theorized both this and the turbine sent the air straight down the carbs throat eliminating air buffeting when entering from both sides and top of carb.All I can say is your already on the dyno try it and let us know please?

IMG_20230730_102819_01.jpg

IMG_20230729_181230_01.jpg

On the dyno with this filter cost 3hp.bellmouth base not what K and N supply

[HQM383]

You got a spacer under the carb?
They can help drop intake vac.
But at 2" it definitely wants a bigger carb.

3" collectors are a definite.

Looking real good so far!

I wouldn't bother dialling in that carb, go for the biggest you got & dial that in, but do collector extensions 1st, they will affect the tune.

Methinks it'll got 565 or so with more carb, 3" collectors & some fine tuning.

1” combo spacer at the moment. Have to source some longer studs on the weekend to be able to add another 1” open spacer underneath. I’m keen on dialing in this carb for the street and it’s potential at the track. I would also like to see what carb size is best for track v dyno output. Operator wasn’t too confident the 2” being accurate. The reading we get after bolting on the 1050cfm should give an indication as I would expect that to get WOT 1” or less.

[steve cowan]

20240103_133322.jpg

20240103_132344.jpg

Overlay with and without drop base.
A bit rich without 0.86 Lambda
0.91 Lambda with drop base no other changes.
Have not used drop base at track yet.

[steve cowan]

You got a spacer under the carb?
They can help drop intake vac.
But at 2" it definitely wants a bigger carb.

3" collectors are a definite.

Looking real good so far!

I wouldn't bother dialling in that carb, go for the biggest you got & dial that in, but do collector extensions 1st, they will affect the tune.

Methinks it'll got 565 or so with more carb, 3" collectors & some fine tuning.

1” combo spacer at the moment. Have to source some longer studs on the weekend to be able to add another 1” open spacer underneath. I’m keen on dialing in this carb for the street and it’s potential at the track . I would also like to see what carb size is best for track v dyno output. Operator wasn’t too confident the 2” being accurate. The reading we get after bolting on the 1050cfm should give an indication as I would expect that to get WOT 1” or less.

Just for reference
My 950 hp has 0.85" vac at WOT
My 1050 with annular boosters 0.25" at WOT at the finish line.

[HQM383]

You got a spacer under the carb?
They can help drop intake vac.
But at 2" it definitely wants a bigger carb.

3" collectors are a definite.

Looking real good so far!

I wouldn't bother dialling in that carb, go for the biggest you got & dial that in, but do collector extensions 1st, they will affect the tune.

Methinks it'll got 565 or so with more carb, 3" collectors & some fine tuning.

1” combo spacer at the moment. Have to source some longer studs on the weekend to be able to add another 1” open spacer underneath. I’m keen on dialing in this carb for the street and it’s potential at the track . I would also like to see what carb size is best for track v dyno output. Operator wasn’t too confident the 2” being accurate. The reading we get after bolting on the 1050cfm should give an indication as I would expect that to get WOT 1” or less.

Just for reference
My 950 hp has 0.85" vac at WOT
My 1050 with annular boosters 0.25" at WOT at the finish line.

Good numbers there Steve. Roughly what I should be seeing. The distributor reads and displays vacuum so I will have to compare with dyno tomorrow. Only had the timing table page open so far in app.

[rgalajda]

Those heads respond to lift better than I expected. They are the G1 heads?