Sanity Check On My Build

[Topsp33d]

I have a 67 mustang that I’ve been restoring forever that I need a sanity check on, hoping you engine masters can guide me on an induction for my engine build. I’ve had this car since high school and it’s seen many iterations but needed a deep dive resto that’s taken a long time because I had a family and business and a home remodel etc so I have accumulated different parts for the engine build

Throughout the resto I switched mindsets of just making a rowdy street/strip combo and went deep diving into a do-it-all makeover which consists of fancy suspension for corner carving while posting numbers at the strip, all while the wife can tolerate a cruise. Quite the ask, I am aware.

I am having trouble deciding on which engine to build for it. I have accumulated many parts for induction while it has been at the machine shop. I had originally planned for efi so I went big with an efi (accel dfi vii) converted edelbrock 2828 intake with injection and 2000cfm throttle body on top of n351 heads with a 288/257/172 .648 solid roller. Hoping that I could make idle okay and pull hard to 7200rpm.

Then wife reminded me of a phrase I once used “I will never buy another digital appliance!” when I was frustrated dealing with an washing machine and it reminded me that I would prefer a basic carburetor setup so I went and started accumulating some more parts because now I wanted a real hands on experience (no efi) ie: Mallory cd ignition and dist and 880 carb etc

I am now in a state of confusion whether to build it out of what I have or sell most of it off and build something that makes more sense for the intended use. I’m wondering how to build the ultimate street machine actually lol, one that will take the wife to a destination comfortably while being able to tach at the strip. Huge bonus for no laptop

Car has a tko600 with 2.87 first, .68 final gear ratio, 3.50 rear gear with torsen diff, 28” tires (295/45r18)

1969 351w .60 over
6.300 dyers rods
4.10 callies crank
Internal balance
N351 heads milled to 54cc (will port to match whatever intake)
288/255/172 .648 bullet cam
2828 glidden converted to efi

Or
Super victor intake
Quickfuel 880
Mallory VII with locked dizzy

Or whatever you guys suggest as the real build for a do-it-all setup! I have a feeling I should go with a way smaller cam, maybe even hydraulic! But the heads have t&d shaft rockers so I was hoping to rpm!.

The real question is: what would you build for this 420w to do street brawl, corner carve, sunset run?

[Topsp33d]

I want to run the 2828 intake just for the eye candy

[Tom68]

Bigger Lighter Heads if you're corner carving.

Wouldn't be running locked Distributor with all the different intended uses.

Intake, meh, Carb will probably be simpler in the long run.

[Dave B]

we used to race dirt modifieds with those heads and super vic intake with braswell 850 on e85. We had 396 inch deals. They ran well with old n351 iron heads. We had to run solid flat tappet cams. 259 and 270 ex on 109 sep in at 105 worked nice on big 3/8 or 1/2 mile dirt. I threw eng in 3200 lb camaro and went 6.19@110 on 1/8th in 2800 corr da

[stealth]

sell and build what you really want.... otherwise it will plague you forever until you eventually build what you want and spend twice as much.

[barnym17]

Milder cam,Fuel injection altho probably not your accel setup, Unless you are corner carving competivitaly iron heads are fine.Then drive and enjoy .

[rebelrouser]

For what it is worth my opinion is you just simply have to ask yourself what technology are you comfortable with and are you willing to learn a new technology. I am 68 years old, I have been building engines since a teenager in 1972, my first was a 283 sbc that the oil pickup fell off of. I simply love working on carburetors. As a mechanic I started at a Chevy dealership in 1976. As automotive Technolgy changed I learned it because as a mechanic the guy that knew to new stuff made more money simple as that.

So you just have to ask yourself what are you comfortable with and what is your learning curve. Building a lot of engines for people who want to drive them on the street, more and more are asking for fuel injection, because they have grown up with the convivence of fuel injected engines, ease of starting etc. And the value of your vehicle when it is time to move on.
I will say this pick an injection system if that is the way you go, that will be around for a while, so parts are available. I picked FiTech for my last personal street build for two reasons all the parts in the throttle body are available over the counter at any parts store mostly GM parts, and the unit has no separate computer to mount, makes the wiring nice and neat. It controls the ignition timing making use of pump gas on a supercharged engine very easy, starts well and gets decent fuel mileage. Plus it sets failure codes like OEM units I already know how to work on. But if you are not trained on how fuel injection works it had some setup issues that the average person would have had serious problems solving. Satisfaction in solving those kinds of problems is part of the challenge and pride in my work that I enjoy. I have installed FiTech , Accel, and Holley systems, tech support was just not up to my expectations on any of the systems. On the other hand setting up a carb properly especially with a decent sized camshaft may not be as easy as some people think, again depending on your abilities, it is just not a drop it on and go deal either. But a good engine program and be realistic what rpm range you will operate the vehicle at on the street, pick a camshaft to make power in that range and have some fun.

My next build if I live long enough is a 65 Coronet convertible with a gen3 hemi, it will have electronic box for the ignition and timing but two AFB carbs, just because of what you said eye candy and an old hemi car just needs carbs.

my eye candy

[1972ho]

In my experience at age now of 68 yoa people that claim that they want to drive a race type car on the street end up not really like driving on them on the street (that’s why you really don’t see to many of them driven on the street).If you really want to know just find a friend that has a car like you want yours to be and see if that’s your comfort level are see if you can ride with someone down the race track.

[Topsp33d]

we used to race dirt modifieds with those heads and super vic intake with braswell 850 on e85. We had 396 inch deals. They ran well with old n351 iron heads. We had to run solid flat tappet cams. 259 and 270 ex on 109 sep in at 105 worked nice on big 3/8 or 1/2 mile dirt. I threw eng in 3200 lb camaro and went 6.19@110 on 1/8th in 2800 corr da

Wow glad to hear the heads worked well for you. Was that setup bucking around at light throttle cruising or would you say it was tolerable?

To everyone else, thanks for your thoughts. I was just starting to doubt my original idea and then the hotrod swap meet had all these goodies that lined up with a carb approach so I had to buy them, only to reconsider that maybe my choice of cam would become undesirable after a few moments lugging at stoplights with all of that overlap.

My last iteration of this engine was a dual plane with 3310 so I never had any concerns about drivability.

Maybe at the next car show I’ll ask everyone their cam specs and see if they’ll take me for a cruise around the block haha

[Dave B]

It really didnt work bad at all. I think having extra fuel with e85 kinda mellow it down some.You have a glide with pretty low rear gear ,you can either buzz it up in low on small tracks or 35-3800 on big tracks in high gear on yellows. We ran same cam with alky also. We got away from gas because of how hot they get on extended yellows. Those heads mill down to around 50 cc pretty easy. I think fast burn may help low speed drivability also. We had older ones from mid 90s . Some where around 2002ish they changed those heads up and decks were not as thick. i think newer heads are 64 cc . iirc older ones actually checked at 59- 60 out of box.

[ClassAct]

I have a 67 mustang that I’ve been restoring forever that I need a sanity check on, hoping you engine masters can guide me on an induction for my engine build. I’ve had this car since high school and it’s seen many iterations but needed a deep dive resto that’s taken a long time because I had a family and business and a home remodel etc so I have accumulated different parts for the engine build

Throughout the resto I switched mindsets of just making a rowdy street/strip combo and went deep diving into a do-it-all makeover which consists of fancy suspension for corner carving while posting numbers at the strip, all while the wife can tolerate a cruise. Quite the ask, I am aware.

I am having trouble deciding on which engine to build for it. I have accumulated many parts for induction while it has been at the machine shop. I had originally planned for efi so I went big with an efi (accel dfi vii) converted edelbrock 2828 intake with injection and 2000cfm throttle body on top of n351 heads with a 288/257/172 .648 solid roller. Hoping that I could make idle okay and pull hard to 7200rpm.

Then wife reminded me of a phrase I once used “I will never buy another digital appliance!” when I was frustrated dealing with an washing machine and it reminded me that I would prefer a basic carburetor setup so I went and started accumulating some more parts because now I wanted a real hands on experience (no efi) ie: Mallory cd ignition and dist and 880 carb etc

I am now in a state of confusion whether to build it out of what I have or sell most of it off and build something that makes more sense for the intended use. I’m wondering how to build the ultimate street machine actually lol, one that will take the wife to a destination comfortably while being able to tach at the strip. Huge bonus for no laptop

Car has a tko600 with 2.87 first, .68 final gear ratio, 3.50 rear gear with torsen diff, 28” tires (295/45r18)

1969 351w .60 over
6.300 dyers rods
4.10 callies crank
Internal balance
N351 heads milled to 54cc (will port to match whatever intake)
288/255/172 .648 bullet cam
2828 glidden converted to efi

Or
Super victor intake
Quickfuel 880
Mallory VII with locked dizzy

Or whatever you guys suggest as the real build for a do-it-all setup! I have a feeling I should go with a way smaller cam, maybe even hydraulic! But the heads have t&d shaft rockers so I was hoping to rpm!.

The real question is: what would you build for this 420w to do street brawl, corner carve, sunset run?

The only thing I would do differently is not locking out the distributor. Your engine will want a curve. Locking it out will kill torque at and around peak torque and it will kill high RPM power. Work on getting a curve in the distributor. It will drive better. Nice ignition box BTW.

[Topsp33d]

My thought for locking out the distributor was because these heads make max power with ~28-32 degrees timing, so in order to have a decent idle with a bunch of overlap I would just find a happy middle ground and stab it in locked to say 30*.

I just remembered I have an accel street billet that I put away because of blowing the modules. This thing can be run locked with vacuum advance or add in as little as 8 degrees mechanical for some kind of nice compromise.

Looks like I have the gear to try and get a carb going, almost want to see how much my Weiand stealth would strangle this thing into a nice driver

[Tom68]

30 degrees isn't enough for a clean idle.
It'll cook the pipes when you cruise.
It's your multi use that needs a timing curve, not the power output since it will rarely be putting out max power.

An advance curve also means you can run a cold enough Spark Plug that they won't become glow plugs when you are at max torque and power.

Otherwise you might have to have track plugs and cruise plugs.

[Topsp33d]

Well I stopped in to see my machinist and get his thoughts on this whole efi vs carb deal and we are starting to have an issue with the build. I bought my rotating assembly used (Callie’s crank and dyers rods and swapped in my pistons) from a guy who said he was using a 1.15 ch piston. I checked the rods and it looks like they’re longer than what we thought, which pushes the piston out the hole a bunch and machinist says no problem we’ll run a tall gasket or mill pistons. That puts me at a higher compression ratio than I intended ( I need to repour these chamber because I came up with 54cc last time using my kids medicine dropper) and now machinists recommended I stay efi and talk to his tuner.

Tuner recommended e85/flex tune using either what I have or his preferred system which is Haltech with dual sync and coil near plug. A big upgrade but also kinda the opposite direction I was leaning because it requires a bunch of extra parts I don’t have as well as a system I don’t know.

New dilemma:

Run a victor jr, no head porting except for chamber, double pumper carb and vacuum advance distributor with the cd ignition I have and hope 11+ compression will work without killing it with retarded ignition

Try and make accel dfi work with hogged out ports (actually it’s high ports on a 10* valve, improves csa) on manifold and head, big gasket, but sounds like there’s room to be desired in the tune

Go full tilt for haltech, dual sync, coil on plug, e85, flextune, high compression build and make a raging bull


I’m getting anxiety about running special gas only available at 3 stations in town. I’m leaning more towards polishing and softening these chambers a bit, porting the pistons what I can, and just trying to find a tune with carb and regular distributor. Obviously there is a problem optimizing that considering I live in Tucson where it could get over 100* on a cruise night.

Can anyone chime in with firsthand experiences running an efficient iron head (10* valves, dual quench chamber) on pump gas with a decent tune? I’m considering running a little rich, cutting advance to 28* max, bypassed regulator ant carb, and a low thermostat. Mechanical fan too, so I can just get away from all the extra wiring while I’m at it.. thanks a bunch guys

[Tom68]

Sounding a bit yuk.

Get the short right, don't be milling pistons and crap. A good short leaves you free to play many games on top.