Who here actually drives an EV/HYBRID?

[Belgian1979]

So with 100% EV, the US grid would need to increase by 30%.
1/3 EV => grid would need to increase by 10%. I am thinking it will take at least 5 years to get there.

I'm all for it although, stats like that, being what they are, can be manipulated to suit the cause.
I'm not disputing it, just saying.
It makes me wonder, because a state like Texas is struggling now. It's not a statistical thing. It's a news event. (At least it's news up here). The cold shuts them down.The heat shuts them down. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that Texas doesn't have a heavy compliment of EVs. If only because of the huge oil and gas sector making up that part of the economy and the people involved tend to fossil fuel orientated. Much like Alberta.
If I'm wrong, well, it wouldn't be the first time.
But, a 10% bump in grid capacity I doubt will be the cure

Keep in mind, although it may be a question of semantics, that grid capacity and or capability (the ability to network with other grids such as the ring around Lake Ontario/Canada/US) is not the same as generating capacity.

Anyway, I'm all for the improvements.
If my government wasn't so preoccupied with getting brownie points on the world stage for the "climate action" they blather on about, they could get on with what we really need. And energy grid and generating infrastructure that could rival the world's best. Then we'd be in the position to adapt without fear of living in the cold and dark. Remember, I'm a Canadian living in winter for almost half a year at a stretch. The prospect of no juice is an unsettling one.
I've got my 12 volt DC power inverter and jumper cables on standby just in case.

The arguments are just as dodgy as the stupid argument about what makes an urban area or a even a city area.

[Belgian1979]

I can't imagine the state of affairs if even 1/3 of the daily drivers were EV.
Not yet anyway. The EV camp has certainly placed the cart before the horse.

Really? You think the grid will get added capacity before the demand increases?

Well, in this country, capacity IS increasing. Mostly through renewables however there a re problems with that too. Overseas too with what looks the Chinese government investing heavily.
But is demand out racing capacity? That I couldn't say but I have seen the EV craze has tempered somewhat. Or from what I see on my news feeds anyway.
On a similar note, for an individual who has the ways and means, as in the right real estate and enough money, building an off grid system to generate and store the electricity needed to charge an EV would be the ticket. But it's easier said that done.

People here have 0 idea about what a grid really means. Going from production facilities, over high tension grids, mid tension grids, low tension grids and eventually to residential. That said the higher up you go the less involved it is to upgrade (up to a certain level) but the problems with EV's lies particularly at charging at the residential areas. That last one is a really difficult one to upgrade in a time frame that will make EV's a livable alternative.

I just hope that we can throw all of those that have wrongly advocated this under the guilliotine like they did in France in 1789.

[tjs44]

This weather the US is having is not proving good for total EVs.Seems they dont like to start in very cold weather.Toyota for sure is looking more at hybrids.Some talk this AM on CNBC of Ford looking toward hybrid with their trucks.Im holding out for plugin hybrid SUV.FWIW,Tom

[chimpvalet]

Kevin, your power shortage issues are provincial, not federal and the climate action posture of the Canadian feds has little if anything to do with Alberta's current troubles.

[skinny z]

Kevin, your power shortage issues are provincial, not federal and the climate action posture of the Canadian feds has little if anything to do with Alberta's current troubles.

Except that the feds have mandated a green energy policy that is being forced onto all provinces on an unreasonable timeline. This province isn't alone in that regard.

Not only is green energy going to take time, the policy in place for power generation in this province isn't one of creating reserve capacity. It's and on demand thing.

Presently, Alberta is working several angles. Nuclear generation is in the pipeline with Ontario's assistance.
At one time, Ontario's electrical grid was strained to the max. Incentives were in place for off peak use and similar energy conservation tactics. Since the advent of the LED light bulb the grid now operates with a surplus. Things change. But it doesn't happen overnight.

EDIT: Just to followup on the thought, yes, it is Alberta's problem, and that of our neighbours to the east. But, our means of increasing capacity isn't aligned with the federal model. So bringing on more demand via EVs will make a bad situation worse. It makes little sense to follow the same generating philosophy when it'll be outlawed before any new projects are completed.
This is why time is needed to bring those greener ideas into production.

As a disclaimer, I'm all for green. EVs too. It makes little difference to me other than I don't want to have to suffer to get there.

[Tom68]

It looks like makers are tooling up more for plugin hybrids? Tom

EVs future is cheap little simple cars. Hybrids are complex and expensive.

F1 is stepping up the hybrid game.
The amount of fuel used per race is being reduced further, not to mention fully sustainable fuel, but the electrical power unit capacity is being increased further.

Well we can see where that's headed.

[skinny z]

F1 is stepping up the hybrid game.
The amount of fuel used per race is being reduced further, not to mention fully sustainable fuel, but the electrical power unit capacity is being increased further.

Well we can see where that's headed.

If you're implying that that the ICE part of F1 is going to disappear, remember that there's already an EV series. I think it'll be a tough sell to go that route what with the massive global influence F1 has.
As for cheap and simple little cars as opposed to hybrids, it'll come around.
VCRs used to cost $2000!
But the cheap and simple will always have a market.

[chimpvalet]

Could not give a toss for E powered race cars, just doesn't entertain to any extent like what ICE power does. Professional sports of all types are entertainment products above all, the regulating bodies diminish the fun factor at great peril to the survival of their rackets. I'll take a solid grid of Historic Group 7 cars over live F1 any day of the week. Took in the Austrian GP live in '23, lovely setting, nice track and that will be the last time I bother attending F1 live. Fortunately the state of TV coverage has become so sophisticated as to sustain some appetite for the show.

[Tom68]

This weather the US is having is not proving good for total EVs.Seems they dont like to start in very cold weather.Toyota for sure is looking more at hybrids.Some talk this AM on CNBC of Ford looking toward hybrid with their trucks.Im holding out for plugin hybrid SUV.FWIW,Tom

Toyota has put out so much BS over the last decade I don't think they know what they're doing next, I doubt they'll focus on Hybrids, they already went down that route.
Battery powered EVs get the subsidies, Hybrids will be considered dirty.

[gruntguru]

So with 100% EV, the US grid would need to increase by 30%. 1/3 EV => grid would need to increase by 10%. It will take at least 5 years to get to 1/3.

I'm all for it although, stats like that, being what they are, can be manipulated to suit the cause. I'm not disputing it, just saying. . . .
But, a 10% bump in grid capacity I doubt will be the cure . . .
Keep in mind, although it may be a question of semantics, that grid capacity and or capability (the ability to network with other grids such as the ring around Lake Ontario/Canada/US) is not the same as generating capacity. . . .

Watch the whole video and point out the bits that might be manipulated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&t=689s

He talks about how quickly generating capacity has grown over the years. 10% is a blip.

[gruntguru]

. . . the grid was at or near capacity and rolling blackouts were imminent.
I can't imagine the state of affairs if even 1/3 of the daily drivers were EV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU&t=689s

So with 100% EV, the US grid would need to increase by 30%.
1/3 EV => grid would need to increase by 10%. I am thinking it will take at least 5 years to get there.

If the power companies can't expand at that rate I will eat my hat. (The leather one).

Then we will see you eat your hat.

Not likely. Go to 3:00 in the video. Between 1960 and 2000 the US grid generation increased by 4% per year. So every 5 years it increased by 21.6%
I think it will be able to increase by 10% over the next 5 years.

[gruntguru]

People here have 0 idea about what a grid really means. Going from production facilities, over high tension grids, mid tension grids, low tension grids and eventually to residential. That said the higher up you go the less involved it is to upgrade (up to a certain level) but the problems with EV's lies particularly at charging at the residential areas. That last one is a really difficult one to upgrade in a time frame that will make EV's a livable alternative.

People here are actually smarter than you think! If you actually believe your insult you are not so smart yourself.

In most countries the residential grid is already mostly capable of dealing with EV charging. Did you know that most "home charging" of EVs takes place at night while people are sleeping and the grid has lots of excess capacity? Who'd have thought?

Yes a lot of folks plug their EV in when they get home and start charging during the evening peak but there are lots of ways (smart metering, off-peak discounts etc ..) to help them change their habits and start charging a couple of hours later.

[Belgian1979]

In regards to anything electrical and grids, yes, obviously I know more than you. If you consider that an insult it is primarily your problem.

A residential grid is made up of 25 mm2 cables supplying on average 100 houses. Considering the cos phi it means 95A is available in that 3f grid. Making for a MAXIMUM DAILY supply of ca. 1600 kWh (P= sqrt 3*400*95) or 16 kWh per home.

With an electricity consumption in a car of 20 kWh per 100 km, this can hardly be considered comfortable if you also want the lights to burn, to make dinner etc.

Do you really think the grid upstream has more capacity to spare?

And now I want to see some of your electrotechnical arguments smartass.

Btw: i had a utility grid specialist confirming the exact same thing: it cannot be done without major investment and a loooooong time.
The only ones that I see defending the idea are those that know shit about it and find their ideas on wizard google or youtube. Mostly the green jerks.

[Tom68]

Battery EV Taxi, China Winter. Blankets for passengers to get range.

Screenshot 2024-01-21 104115.jpg

[gruntguru]

In regards to anything electrical and grids, yes, obviously I know more than you. If you consider that an insult it is primarily your problem.

Except that's not what you actually said - see below:

People here have 0 idea about what a grid really means.

It would be impossible for you to insult me by the way - I was speaking of the forum members in general. We are all technical people and there would not be a single one who has 0 idea about the meaning of a "grid".