Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
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Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
For years I wondered what I could do with all the single components I had that had been used for testing. Example - about twenty five different rockers by different manufactures and at various ratio's. About 40 pistons - all different - that had been used for photo purposes. Same with cams, lifters pushrods, springs, valves, valve covers etc. All perfectly good parts but not enough of one kind to make up a full set.
My long standing friend and Caribbean crew chief/driver, Mervin Bonnet, called me and told me about this gal in Trinidad. She had rounded up enough sponsorship cash to get a Mazda RX7 rolling chassis and transmission up ready to run but ran out of cash for a motor. The motor required for this car was a SB Ford. Mervin's question - did I have any used but usable parts left that I could let go cheap. Well it must have been one of those times where I did not have a set of 8 of any good used parts. So we started talking alternatives. What if we selected the best parts and built the engine with whatever was available, matching or not?
Well here is how it went. Mervin already had a good used block that had minimal wear and would quickly clean up with a 3 stone glaze buster. We had 3 different brands of performance pistons of differing CR's. With the pistons all brought to the weight of the lightest the highest CR pistons were installed in the front and the lowest at the back because that end runs hotter. Stock rods with ARP bolts were used on an as new low milage (about 50,000) crank.
Two different head styles were used. Each were one left over from a pair where on of the pair had cracked. One had 165 cc ports and a 1.9 intake while the other had a 178 cc intake with a 2.00 intake from a 1980-something Corvette. All that with a jumble of rockers and pushrods made up this 'Cocktail' build.Intake manifold was a well used (ugley) Victor Jnr. This was given a prefunctory clean-up and a port match to the heads. Carb was one that was a salvaged Holly that Mervin re-built. Tucked between the carb and intake was a nitrous kit that was mostly 'home built' that was jetted for 75 HP.
The camshaft for this total mismatch of parts was done for us by Mike Jones. It was a hyd. roller, speced out for the average of what was used and sported about 285 degrees duration at 0.006. Lifters were stock ones I converted to limited travel (about 0.012) for a total cost of about 75 cents. (I spun these with a reasonable spring to 8000 - no problem)
So how much power did this cocktail build make. I realize that many ST posters suspect that magazine writers tend to exaggerate output figures for the purposes of better front cover appeal. (if you have something to say on that go to my post at:-viewtopic.php?f=46&t=58009)
Well here is a very accurate assessment of the output - We have never dynoed it - so I have little to no idea. All I can tell you is this motor was built for little more than the cost of the gaskets involved. Granted it is far from a perfect motor but this gal will tell you that it's way more fun running low 11's with a very dubious build that speculating what might have been if a budget of say another $6000 had been available - but was not.
I am just getting to the point where I have a bunch of odd parts left from tests and photo shoots and thought it might be fun to donate these to anyone who might like to build a 'cocktail' motor for an Youtube video. I have got rockers, pistons, intakes, heads, camshafts, lifters etc No block, crank or rods though.
Any volunteer should be a Pro with good access to a dyno.
PM me if you are interested.
DV
My long standing friend and Caribbean crew chief/driver, Mervin Bonnet, called me and told me about this gal in Trinidad. She had rounded up enough sponsorship cash to get a Mazda RX7 rolling chassis and transmission up ready to run but ran out of cash for a motor. The motor required for this car was a SB Ford. Mervin's question - did I have any used but usable parts left that I could let go cheap. Well it must have been one of those times where I did not have a set of 8 of any good used parts. So we started talking alternatives. What if we selected the best parts and built the engine with whatever was available, matching or not?
Well here is how it went. Mervin already had a good used block that had minimal wear and would quickly clean up with a 3 stone glaze buster. We had 3 different brands of performance pistons of differing CR's. With the pistons all brought to the weight of the lightest the highest CR pistons were installed in the front and the lowest at the back because that end runs hotter. Stock rods with ARP bolts were used on an as new low milage (about 50,000) crank.
Two different head styles were used. Each were one left over from a pair where on of the pair had cracked. One had 165 cc ports and a 1.9 intake while the other had a 178 cc intake with a 2.00 intake from a 1980-something Corvette. All that with a jumble of rockers and pushrods made up this 'Cocktail' build.Intake manifold was a well used (ugley) Victor Jnr. This was given a prefunctory clean-up and a port match to the heads. Carb was one that was a salvaged Holly that Mervin re-built. Tucked between the carb and intake was a nitrous kit that was mostly 'home built' that was jetted for 75 HP.
The camshaft for this total mismatch of parts was done for us by Mike Jones. It was a hyd. roller, speced out for the average of what was used and sported about 285 degrees duration at 0.006. Lifters were stock ones I converted to limited travel (about 0.012) for a total cost of about 75 cents. (I spun these with a reasonable spring to 8000 - no problem)
So how much power did this cocktail build make. I realize that many ST posters suspect that magazine writers tend to exaggerate output figures for the purposes of better front cover appeal. (if you have something to say on that go to my post at:-viewtopic.php?f=46&t=58009)
Well here is a very accurate assessment of the output - We have never dynoed it - so I have little to no idea. All I can tell you is this motor was built for little more than the cost of the gaskets involved. Granted it is far from a perfect motor but this gal will tell you that it's way more fun running low 11's with a very dubious build that speculating what might have been if a budget of say another $6000 had been available - but was not.
I am just getting to the point where I have a bunch of odd parts left from tests and photo shoots and thought it might be fun to donate these to anyone who might like to build a 'cocktail' motor for an Youtube video. I have got rockers, pistons, intakes, heads, camshafts, lifters etc No block, crank or rods though.
Any volunteer should be a Pro with good access to a dyno.
PM me if you are interested.
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
What is a magazine??? Just messing around with ya Davis.David Vizard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:27 pm I realize that many ST posters suspect that magazine writers tend to exaggerate output figures for the purposes of better front cover appeal.
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
Elroy,Elroy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:51 pmWhat is a magazine??? Just messing around with ya Davis.David Vizard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:27 pm I realize that many ST posters suspect that magazine writers tend to exaggerate output figures for the purposes of better front cover appeal.Crazy thing these days..../another example of something that has came and went...magazines. Magazines are gone for sure but they have quickly been replaced by other vehicles of misinformation...rest assured.
Could not agree more. We have gone from a relatively unqualified group magazine tech writers to a huge group of totally unqualified internet posters craving just a little of the limelight in terms of recognition. But more on that on my other post
DV
David Vizard Small Group Performance Seminars - held about every 2 months. My shop or yours. Contact for seminar deails - davidvizardseminar@gmail.com for details.
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
I’m just wondering what kind of mods were done to that mid-80’s corvette head to get it to work on the SB ford.The motor required for this car was a SB Ford.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
Donating donated parts.David Vizard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:27 pm I am just getting to the point where I have a bunch of odd parts left from tests and photo shoots and thought it might be fun to donate these to anyone who might like to build a 'cocktail' motor for an Youtube video. I have got rockers, pistons, intakes, heads, camshafts, lifters etc No block, crank or rods though.
Any volunteer should be a Pro with good access to a dyno.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
I did a cocktail 350 for a buddy who was flat broke and his work truck died. The only new parts were bearings,
gaskets, a cheap single roller timing chain, valve seals and k line guides. Honed 2 bolt block, polished uncut crank, rods from 3 mixed sets checked, sump head pistons checked for wear from 4 different mills, give away 1.72/1.5 open chamber boat anchors fully ported like you needed to ask, ported cast iron q jet manifold ported, reused 300hp corvette cam that was in excellent shape, refaced lifers measuring the crown from 4 different engines, disasembled and cleaned. Checked old springs, stock rockers, disasembled and checked old oil pump. It wasn't designed as a road burner just to get him by for a while. Ran great and for years, he loved it.
gaskets, a cheap single roller timing chain, valve seals and k line guides. Honed 2 bolt block, polished uncut crank, rods from 3 mixed sets checked, sump head pistons checked for wear from 4 different mills, give away 1.72/1.5 open chamber boat anchors fully ported like you needed to ask, ported cast iron q jet manifold ported, reused 300hp corvette cam that was in excellent shape, refaced lifers measuring the crown from 4 different engines, disasembled and cleaned. Checked old springs, stock rockers, disasembled and checked old oil pump. It wasn't designed as a road burner just to get him by for a while. Ran great and for years, he loved it.
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
DV does have a nice tbi fuel injection I could replace on the old work truck! That would be fun.Elroy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:54 pmDonating donated parts.David Vizard wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:27 pm I am just getting to the point where I have a bunch of odd parts left from tests and photo shoots and thought it might be fun to donate these to anyone who might like to build a 'cocktail' motor for an Youtube video. I have got rockers, pistons, intakes, heads, camshafts, lifters etc No block, crank or rods though.
Any volunteer should be a Pro with good access to a dyno.Pay it forward. My vote is for Karnut. He will get that dude together and see what she's made of....share the results.
Servedio Cylinder Head Development
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
Looks like I misread what was going on there.
“Valves” from corvette head.
Carry on.
Somewhat handy with a die grinder.
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
Hi Dave , this might work if you can't get anyone interested in all the parts. Obviously it would be a V8.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
Well that's certainly different. I wouldn't even know where to begin to spec a cam for something like that.
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
There are urban legends of engines coming off the factory production line something like that.
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
I thought the same thing you did and had to reread.
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Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
One is reminded of the Johnny Cash song “One Piece At A Time” where he sneaks home car parts over several decades then he and his buddy put it all together one night and something is “definitely wrong”...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=18cW_yHo3PY
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=18cW_yHo3PY
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
One o my favorites.Circlotron wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:22 pm One is reminded of the Johnny Cash song “One Piece At A Time” where he sneaks home car parts over several decades then he and his buddy put it all together one night and something is “definitely wrong”...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=18cW_yHo3PY
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!
Re: Cocktail Engine - a rare bird for sure!
I never did an engine ad odd as DV's but I did piece together a 306 SBC short block and ran the cam and top end from my 382", I really didn't expect it to live more than pass or 2 and it ended up being the quickest and fastest combo the car had seen at that time.
I think if I had attempted DV's build I wold have progressed or staggered the compression with the firing order... not sure it would have mattered.
306, 300 Shot, it only ran 7.64 at 92 on motor, 3100 lb Nova.
I think if I had attempted DV's build I wold have progressed or staggered the compression with the firing order... not sure it would have mattered.
306, 300 Shot, it only ran 7.64 at 92 on motor, 3100 lb Nova.
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!