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EMC 289

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Walter R. Malik
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Re: EMC 289

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:40 pm

It seems there are two threads running under the same title and I'm getting it all mixed-up.
Oh, well.


I am pretty sure others probably are, also.
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hoffman900
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Re: EMC 289

Post by hoffman900 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:19 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:40 pm
It seems there are two threads running under the same title and I'm getting it all mixed-up.
Oh, well.


I am pretty sure others probably are, also.

There is Mummert’s Engine, which Bill-C supplied the basis of the heads for. I asked how this engine differs from the road race versions he uses this head for. Someone asked a question, and he and I responded.

You could just ask a question about Mummert’s engine if you want to steer it back on topic?

This doesn’t seem hard...
-Bob

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Re: EMC 289

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Not hard ... however, I didn't think it was a requirement for someone to steer it back "on topic".
The going "off topic" was certainly more than just comparing other engines with completely different rules to Geoff's EMC cylinder heads.
I was simply wondering if someone was going to begin their own different thread which I could then follow.
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Re: EMC 289

Post by Walter R. Malik » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:31 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:19 pm
Not hard ... however, I didn't think it was a requirement for someone to steer it back "on topic".
The going "off topic" was certainly more than just comparing other engines with completely different rules to Geoff's EMC cylinder heads.
I was simply wondering if someone was going to begin their own different thread which I could then follow.
Geoff, was there some special modifications made inside the oil pan and crankcase other than simple over the counter stuff...?

Those "68 Ford 302 4 barrel heads you mention which are hard to find ... are those the ones with the 289 type "kidney" chamber...?
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Re: EMC 289

Post by Mummert » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:09 pm

The 68 four barrel heads as far as I know are just 289 heads with 302 numbers on them. The pan is a GT-350 replica pan standard Aviad part, so it has neat baffles and trap doors in it for road racing. My buddy Dave built a nice perforated metal shield that bolted to the main girdle, but thats about it.
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Re: EMC 289

Post by Mummert » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:22 pm

Quick pic testing tri-y and home brew waterpump drive
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Re: EMC 289

Post by hoffman900 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:28 pm

Why that cylinder pairing on the tri-y? Did you think about buying the Elston spec headers CA sells? Was there a rule on what constitutes a “production” header? If it’s a catalog item, is it then considered “production” even if made to order?

On the Sportbikes that use that pairing, obviously they have different firing orders, but they run a balance tune between the secondaries.
-Bob

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Re: EMC 289

Post by Mummert » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:52 pm

A V-8 is a pair of odd fire 4 cylinders hooked together to make an even fire 8. V-8 Tri-y work on a 270-450-270-450 basis, the other side is y'ed every other. This common for all 90* v-8's
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Re: EMC 289

Post by hoffman900 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:15 pm

Mummert wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:52 pm
A V-8 is a pair of odd fire 4 cylinders hooked together to make an even fire 8. V-8 Tri-y work on a 270-450-270-450 basis, the other side is y'ed every other. This common for all 90* v-8's
You're right. I had a brain fart. I'm use to seeing them like this:
Image

The front primary looping under is typical on I-4s or flat plane cranks as it pairs with cylinder #4, had it all registered in my head wrong.
-Bob

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Re: EMC 289

Post by JC565Ford » Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:44 pm

left bank 5-8 pairing is every other.

Image

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Re: EMC 289

Post by Steve.k » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:24 am

Mummert wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:09 pm
The 68 four barrel heads as far as I know are just 289 heads with 302 numbers on them. The pan is a GT-350 replica pan standard Aviad part, so it has neat baffles and trap doors in it for road racing. My buddy Dave built a nice perforated metal shield that bolted to the main girdle, but thats about it.
Geoff i no its not iron but have you worked much with the edelbrock estreet series heads at all or the next step up the jrs? We did a 306 with mildly ported estreet and airgap. And the performance really surprised me.

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Re: EMC 289

Post by Mummert » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:36 pm

Years back, we played with perfomers rpm, which I believe are the same as E-street but with better parts, and vic jrs,. I liked the performer rpms pre 2003' before they changed the casting, on smaller engines.
If there is something to be learned from this whole project, what it takes to make 450 hp on a pump gas 289 as far as cylinder heads go is more based on air speed than based on big flow numbers.
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Re: EMC 289

Post by JC565Ford » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:45 pm

Geoff,

Your thoughts in the " 400" EMC " thread ?

Jon

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Re: EMC 289

Post by JC565Ford » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:48 pm

Mummert wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:32 am
. The bore was 4.041 filled by off the shelf JE SRP Pro flat top pistons. We played some games to get the ring tension down. Compression 10.47:1
Any thought given in using a zero-gap ring in an application like this ?

Jon

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Re: EMC 289

Post by Mummert » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:52 pm

JC565Ford wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:48 pm
Mummert wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:32 am
. The bore was 4.041 filled by off the shelf JE SRP Pro flat top pistons. We played some games to get the ring tension down. Compression 10.47:1
Any thought given in using a zero-gap ring in an application like this ?
I think regular are rings pretty near zero gap when the engine is running. But I think zero gap rings give you nice cold leak down.
Jon
The ring people don't do a good job at showing scientific testing that I've seen , people are either for them or not. Engines are filled with compromise. Lets a say a zero gap ring had less cylinder leak at low running speeds, that would show a torque gain, if you put a conventional ring in the engine that had more leakage but it had less drag, it might show you the same power.
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