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How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Dave Koehler
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by Dave Koehler »

What everyone else said.
Sleeve it with a ledge at the bottom.
Green loctite.
A lot of the time I would smear some all over the bore but you have to be quick in getting the sleeve installed. :D =D>
If you can use a right angle drill or adapter with a short drill bit, drill both ends of the crack.
The drilling part is a peace of mind thing for the most part.
I sleeved many without the drilling and never had an issue. Reference the fist sized holes previously mentioned.
Yes, you will need to go larger on the bore due to distortion. It's one of those things you don't grasp until you see it.

Oh, yeah, don't even think about welding. Nice idea but the results will disappoint.
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

ClassAct wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 1:56 pm

The machine shop is nuts. Don’t weld it before the sleeve. Find a different shop. Use the correct sleeve, make them all .060 over and forget about it. If the sleeve is done correctly you’ll never know it’s in there.
Thats what I tought about the welding, but believe me, this is the best machine shop around here. Here in Brazil there are few good machine shops with a capability to do a V8 block, due the fact these represents about 1% of they work. Most are setup just for four cylinder blocks.

I've seen several 350 blocks crack from the head bolt hole to the sleeve, that's why I'm concerned and thinking about use a Std Piston and a slight smaller OD sleeve, the keep more cylinder wall thickness.

Thanks for reply
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

rebelrouser wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:28 pm I understand their are some shops that are good at cast iron welding, there is just not any of them near me I guess. I have seen very few cast iron weld repairs that held up. I would think that unless you have an oven to pre heat and cool the block, it will just crack beside your weld when the new sleeve is pressed in. No welding shop close to me has an oven big enough to hold a block.
I have a buddy right now that had a sleeve installed to repair damage from a broken rod. The block started leaking after about 30 runs, cracks coming from around the area welded, on the out side of the water jacket. The sleeve seems to be holding well, the water jacket was welded after the sleeve was pressed in. This is about a 750HP mopar engine, I just don't think cast iron as brittle as it is, likes the stress that welding imparts. I have nickel welded a couple small pieces of pan rail, and that worked out OK, but it was not structural.
Yes, weld cast iron is a pain. Hard to be successful w/o the correct procedure.

Thanks for reply.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

BillK wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:46 pm I have put quite a few sleeves in blocks exactly like that one. I have never welded them first. Lately I have been using flanged sleeves instead of leaving a step on the bottom but they are very hard to do without decking the block afterwards and if it is a numbers matching block he wont want to do that. I would just use a regular sleeve with a step at the bottom and put some green loctite or brown sealer around the bottom. Finish the top with a file and a stone and you wont have to deck the block. More work but if he cares about numbers matching thats what you have to do. I would definitely make all of the cylinders the same bore size.
I believe the flanged sleeve will weaken the head bolt area, so I'm intend to use a regular sleeve and a step at the bottom.

Once I "corrected" a 283" deck surface around the bolt holes with a stone to keep the budget. I like the old school tricks too. =D>

Thanks for the tips.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

prairiehotrodder wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:52 pm set the numbers block in the corner for safe keeping. Get another block so that when you enjoy driving the car you can actually enjoy it. Then if you ever sell the car, give them the numbers block to go with it.
Brian
Wish our life could be so easy over here in Brazil hehe.

We never had a car or truck with a SBC made here, so all the blocks came from USA, and they are rare and expensive.Really expensive. When one shows up to sell is a pile and priced as gold.

This is why we're trying our best to save this block.

Thanks
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

F-BIRD'88 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:47 pm The shop that sleeved a 350 for me did not weld the
cracked cylinder first. Not needed. If the other 7 .040 over cylinders are servicable with a hone+ re ring just fix the one cylinder... if another 350 block is available (can be a 2 bolt) it is a consideration.
Make all the holes the same size reguardless.
A 2 bolt block is fine for your purpose.
I also think weld is unnecessary , But I thought would be a good discussion here.

The other seven cylinders are bad. Six are tapered like you couldn't believe and the #5 is scratched.

Find another good block would be perfect but they are rare and expensive here. Real Expensive.

I believe would be a good insurance use a smaller OD sleeve and a STD piston to keep the maximum cylinder wall thickness to hopefully make this block live. I also believe this wouldn't compromise the engine in any way, but I may be wrong.

Thank you for reply
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

PackardV8 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 3:56 pm
prairiehotrodder wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 2:52 pm set the numbers block in the corner for safe keeping. Get another block so that when you enjoy driving the car you can actually enjoy it. Then if you ever sell the car, give them the numbers block to go with it. Brian
Core 350" SBCs are cheap trash here, but I believe our OP is in Brazil, where they're unobtanium.

X2, sleeve that cracked hole and bore all eight to .060". Done every day here. Having said that, a numbers matching guy just had us sleeve all eight holes back to STD.
Yes you're right,I'm in Brazil. Some Gearheads may kill for a good 350 block over here. LOL

Thanks for reply!
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

Dave Koehler wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 10:21 pm What everyone else said.
Sleeve it with a ledge at the bottom.
Green loctite.
A lot of the time I would smear some all over the bore but you have to be quick in getting the sleeve installed. :D =D>
If you can use a right angle drill or adapter with a short drill bit, drill both ends of the crack.
The drilling part is a peace of mind thing for the most part.
I sleeved many without the drilling and never had an issue. Reference the fist sized holes previously mentioned.
Yes, you will need to go larger on the bore due to distortion. It's one of those things you don't grasp until you see it.

Oh, yeah, don't even think about welding. Nice idea but the results will disappoint.
Lots of good tips here. I'll drill holes at the crack ends to stop it there for good.

I believe distortion , I'm 23 years working as tool and die maker so I know a bit about the iron and steel behavior regarding interference fit, hehe

Thank you for the help.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

KnightEngines wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 7:14 pm I've sleeved blocks with fist sized holes punched in bores (well, maybe no quite, but big holes!).
Step at the bottom, green loctite everywhere, .002" press fit.
Run at 600+hp no issues.
Wow, I tought the press fit was a bit less than .002" in these cases .

What sleeve wall thickness you set to hold well at that power level?
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

shoedoos wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 8:12 pm OP, I take it the block isn't usable at 40 over? If it is, why would you go to 60 if the thing can be salvaged at a smaller overbore?

Despite the fact this engine had low miles, the machine shop and assembly was poorly done by other shop. Six bores actually are .004" tapered, yes, you read it right.The number 5 hole have deep scratches too, probably caused by piston pieces from the broken #3 piston land scuffing the heck of it.

When the sleeve is installed the neighbor cylinders distorts. This block needs to go 060, unfortunatelly.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

houser45 wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 9:03 pm Find a shop with a Berco style block boring/decking mill, use a thick wall melling sleeve. Indicate the top of the deck square with the boring head. If using a bhj style fixture the cam tunnel bar may have to be shimmed off of perfect 90•. Bore for .002” press fit, leave a ledge at the bottom And allow for the sleeve to stick out. Use a square cutter to machine the sleeve down to the deck. Leave it up a .001” or .002”. You could go .060”. You might get away with .045” over if you use an expensive piston available from je or Cp ect. I wouldn’t advise trying to leave the others at .040”. The notes next to the sleeved ones will be out of round. Green loctite the heck out of the sleeve. It will work fine
Thank you for these details. I'll ask the machine shop to do this way.

What minimum sleeve wall thickness you like to set for 425-450hp power level?

Thanks for reply
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by econo racer »

I know its not number matching but Summit sells a 350-4 bolt main block 40 over for $739.00 Remanufactured. But how bad would the shipping be?
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

econo racer wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 3:29 am I know its not number matching but Summit sells a 350-4 bolt main block 40 over for $739.00 Remanufactured. But how bad would the shipping be?
Only to you get an idea, lets say the shipment would cost $400 by ship. So, 1139 USD, then add 77% taxes we pay here,(yes the stupid high taxes are on total invoice value including shipping) plus 6% credit card tax; that equals to 2137 USD.

Now the cool part: actually our money worth 1:5.57 USD, meaning we would pay 2137x5,57= 11.903 Reais. Thats what a regular worker earn in six months. Lowest level workers get that in a year.

Not easy to build these engines over here Buddy. We're real happy when the market changes and our coin worth about three times less than the USD, then things get a lot cheaper.But thats a rare occasion.

Thanks for reply.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by liqu »

This is off subject, however do they have Fase 2 292 Fords in Brazil?
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Re: How to sleeve a 350 the right way?

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro »

liqu wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 4:00 pm This is off subject, however do they have Fase 2 292 Fords in Brazil?
Yes we do.
'71 Z28 street strip car
Pump gas All motor SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
NEW BEST ET
1.40 60' / 4.05 330' / 6.32@111.25mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p13UK ... ture=share
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