Cross Ram intakes.

[pdq67]

How do these way old school cross ram intakes work, on the street AND strip?

STR-10, and X-C8.

They have what to me appear to have long runners.

I can't get the Victory Library pictures to C & P???

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/edel.htm#C8

pdq67

[tenxal]

Pitiful things.

[BillK]

I found one at an estate sale a few years ago for almost nothing. I was thinking it would be neat to convert it to multi port injection with two air valves and the injectors hidden down the middle. I ended up selling it to a customer that just "had to have it"

[rebelrouser]

I have run NSS for many years. I have a 64 Dodge, back in the 90's I ran a mild 440, with a wieand cross ram, and a single dominator. I think the real superstock guys ran this manifold with three two barrels. that manifold worked well, car ran 10.90's
To run NSS had to switch to a two four manifold that fit under the hood, so I got a 64 factory cross ram, the car slowed down 3 tenth's
I then built a 500 inch engine with the Chrysler cross ram and it was like the thing had a governor on it, no matter what I did low 10's is all it would do. took a regular victor Jr. intake and welded up a two four barrel top, and the car ran 9.80's, tuned on it a little and got a 9.64 out of it.
If you want something that looks neat, and smaller cubic inch, and can work on carbs an old cross ram can work, but modern manifolds are just a lot faster. I am saving the Chrysler cross ram for a street rod project, if I live long enough to finish it.






https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... ORM=IRPRST

[rustbucket79]

We had a healthy 489 inch Gen II Hemi on the dyno a year or so ago. Tried a few different intakes, all dual quads.

What I can say is a vintage Rat Roaster intake which was supposed to be THE intake to run in super stock back in the day was an absolute train wreak on the dyno. Absolute disaster, and when we removed the lid to pull off the intake there was pools of gasoline in various places in the intake plenum. Apparently Direct Connection had a fix kit for these intakes to redirect the air/fuel streams.

Unless you dyno to verify, all you have is theory and rumours to rely on when it comes to old school engine parts. IIRC one of the car mags did a huge SBC intake test many years ago, and they did test one of those cross rams, I don’t recall it performing well.

Use these “classic” parts for nostalgic reasons or for a period correct build, not for performance. If this intake was the hot ticket, you can bet it would still be in production.

[panic]

The problem is not the idea of bank-separating the cylinders and long runners. I drove a 1960 300F 413 long ram with A/C and 2.93 gears. Unless you put your foot down it feels like an AFB.
How did they do this? Small plenum, small carburetors.

[pdq67]

Back years ago when I was working in MO's Air Pollution Control Program, A guy gave me a book on early SMOG control, (I think?).

Anyway it had an intake design in it that was a square 4 x2 with a little bitty 2-barrel in the center of it.

And all of the carb's were ducted together to balance them.

I want to say Bartholomew(?).

It ran off the little bitty 2-barrel in the middle until you kicked in all 4 at speed.

Seemed to work fine, but never got off the ground.

pdq67

PS., kind a like this

OO---------OO
------oo
OO--------OO

[miniv8]

I have one of these, I rebuilt it probably 20yrs ago, welded up stripped and cracked bolt and pipe threads, but still haven't put it to use.


I want to build a new top for it and mount four 48mm IDF carbs and use it on the street for fun.

I've been trying to read upon the cfm ratings and from the little information I find, it contradicts everything I previously thought I knew about these carbs. CFM discussions seems to screw with everyone, as CFM rating for a carb on a single intake runner has to be huge because of all the reversion. That's how a hopped up tiny Aircooled V-dub can ingest a 600+cfm worth of carb.

I am wondering if putting them on a common plenum such as the Smokey, will give me satisfactory results. They are rated at 320cfm per carb and using four adds up to the CFM I'd like, but I wonder if they need the air pulsation from a single intake runner to work.

[pdq67]

I would install 4 2-barrels on it's top like this.

PS., kind a like this

OO---------OO

------OO--------OO

Not

O------O
O------O

-----O--------O
-----O--------O

I forget 2G's or 2GC's, the smaller ones as well as the bigger ones here??

They were a dime a dozen back when I was a kid.

pdq67

[Tuner]

I have one of these, I rebuilt it probably 20yrs ago, welded up stripped and cracked bolt and pipe threads, but still haven't put it to use.


I want to build a new top for it and mount four 48mm IDF carbs and use it on the street for fun.

I've been trying to read upon the cfm ratings and from the little information I find, it contradicts everything I previously thought I knew about these carbs. CFM discussions seems to screw with everyone, as CFM rating for a carb on a single intake runner has to be huge because of all the reversion. That's how a hopped up tiny Aircooled V-dub can ingest a 600+cfm worth of carb.

I am wondering if putting them on a common plenum such as the Smokey, will give me satisfactory results. They are rated at 320cfm per carb and using four adds up to the CFM I'd like, but I wonder if they need the air pulsation from a single intake runner to work.

The Weber carbs are usually tuned to compensate for whatever pulsation occurs, whether with IR or multi-cylinder plenum, by selection of emulsion tubes, air bleeds, main jets and idle jets. In typical Weber tuning the emulsion tube and main air bleed has most influence on the carb's characteristics over the total range of airflow.

[F-BIRD'88]

4 holley 2bbls (mounted sideways) on a custom top would be fun too.

[MadBill]

.. I've been trying to read upon the cfm ratings and from the little information I find, it contradicts everything I previously thought I knew about these carbs. CFM discussions seems to screw with everyone, as CFM rating for a carb on a single intake runner has to be huge because of all the reversion. That's how a hopped up tiny Aircooled V-dub can ingest a 600+cfm worth of carb...

It's not because of reversion; it's because with individual throttles the mixture is only flowing when the intake valve is open. (less than 40% of the time) instead of more or less continuously with multiple cylinders per throttle.

Pay heed to Tuner's words re the significant calibration differences between IR and plenum usage.

[miniv8]

Thanks for the heads up Tuner.
From what I gather they are really tunable, and easy to sleeve if a signal is lacking, when all else fails.
The knowledge definitely is out there, I just might hit you up for some baseline pointers.

It's hard to make the four Holley two barrels as aesthetically pleasing as quadruple Webers with trumpets, and I'll probably have more fun using something different for a change than a 4150

I might just pull that manifold up from under the table sooner than I thought.

[tjs44]

I have a factory Pontiac 303 Ram Air V Xram made for the 1969 SCCA program.Im going to try to use it on a 383 short deck engine im building now for my 69 bird.It will be a 100% street car.It was designed for the Holley 4 bbls that the 302 Xram used.I have a NOS set of those carbs.I just had a plexy glass top made to be able to run a set of AFBs but run them with primarys inboard more like the factory Mopars did.I know they used staggered jetting on both the AFBs and Holleys.Just going to see if it makes the engine a little more street friendly.Tom

[Stan Weiss]

Is it the cross ram design that is a problem, or is it that when those manifolds were designed the engine had less ci and then they are being put on today and just don't have the runner CSA area needed?

Stan