Stock Eliminator secrets?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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LSP
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by LSP »

[/quote]you must keep the OEM lifter size.
[/quote]

Where is that stated in the rule book?
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nhrastocker
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

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LSP wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:09 pm
you must keep the OEM lifter size.
[/quote]

Where is that stated in the rule book?
[/quote]

It is part of the "Blueprinting" language.
It reads as follows:

BLUEPRINTING
"Permitted per NHRA Specifications available from NHRA
Technical Services Department headquarters. Stock factory OEM
components (unless otherwise specified) must be retained and
remain unaltered (i.e., connecting rods, pushrods, crankshaft, etc.)."


Under this premise, NHRA requires the engine components to be in accordance to the OEM configuration and size, unless it is allowed in the specific engine NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications.

The link to the NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications is as follows:
http://www.nhraracer.com/content/genera ... zoneid=132
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by LSP »

nhrastocker wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:01 pm
LSP wrote: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:09 pm
you must keep the OEM lifter size.
Where is that stated in the rule book?
[/quote]

It is part of the "Blueprinting" language.
It reads as follows:

BLUEPRINTING
"Permitted per NHRA Specifications available from NHRA
Technical Services Department headquarters. Stock factory OEM
components (unless otherwise specified) must be retained and
remain unaltered (i.e., connecting rods, pushrods, crankshaft, etc.)."


Under this premise, NHRA requires the engine components to be in accordance to the OEM configuration and size, unless it is allowed in the specific engine NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications
[/quote]

But an oversize cam core isn't in accordance to the "OEM configuration and size", and nothing in the NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications says it IS allowed, so why is it ok?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 1972ho »

I think some people do it simple because they know no one will ever ask them to pull there camshaft and measure the journals just like crankshaft,and connecting rods.ie smaller than normal journals and whittled down crankshafts.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

1972ho wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:19 amI think some people do it simple because they know no one will ever ask them to pull there camshaft and measure the journals....
Cam journal size has been checked in NHRA Stocker tear down.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by 1972ho »

Really how often does that happen Indy and once every blue moon,I’ve been checked and that never happened and I’ve seen other checked and no journal sizes were ever even though about.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

1972ho wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:30 amReally how often does that happen Indy and once every blue moon,I’ve been checked and that never happened and I’ve seen other checked and no journal sizes were ever even though about.
Because you've never seen it checked doesn't mean it's hasn't been.

Now, whether NHRA chose to do anything about it is another matter. Like another widely known issue this season... :shock:

NHRA has clarified the cam journal rule in Stock. Then reversed course. Then reversed course again. :wink:
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by nhrastocker »

NHRA has limited the amount of tech they due unless there is a paid protest and the protester asks what to specifically they want NHRA to check.

The last time I saw a complete teardown was at the 2015 Indy race when a friend of mine was protested by two racers that put the money. He had to tear his engine completely apart to the bare block. They even checked the wiring to his ECU, wheelbase, front and rear body overhang.
Still, he passed with flying colors and on his post teardown pass, he went another .15 quicker to just make a statement on the the guys that protested him.

The most I have seen lately for teardowns is cam lift check at the rocker arm, cylinder head check, intake/carb check and verifying the piston is in the approved list. Have not seen a rod/piston assembly pulled for some time.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by shoedoos »

dumb (slightly unrelated) question......what does a protest cost when dealing with NHRA? Are there consequences for frivolous protests?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by nhrastocker »

shoedoos wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:21 pm dumb (slightly unrelated) question......what does a protest cost when dealing with NHRA? Are there consequences for frivolous protests?
The protest fee is a minimum of $750. If you want additional specific inspection, the price doubles.
If the person that is protested passes, he gets the fee money, minus an NHRA administrative fee.
If the person that is protested is found in violation of the rules, the person that filed the protest gets his money, minus an NHRA administrative fee.
The acceptance of the protest is to the discretion of NHRA.

Yes, there have been many times that NHRA has refused to do a teardown because they could see it was frivolous.
At one occasion I could remember, a racer, although he knew the other car was legal, wanted to have a car torn down because he knew how difficult it would be for the racer to put his engine and car back together and this way he would keep him out of the particular race. Since they were in the same class, same model car and year, NHRA refused because they saw the intent of the racer. Yes, the racer got a verbal warning too.

Also, the rule book allows NHRA to confiscate any part they deem bogus, for their evaluation.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by shoedoos »

^^^ Thank you, very informative.....I take it they have a time limit for protesting?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by LSP »

One more time........

But an oversize cam core isn't in accordance to the "OEM configuration and size", and nothing in the NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications says it IS allowed, so why is it ok?
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

LSP wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:48 am One more time........

But an oversize cam core isn't in accordance to the "OEM configuration and size", and nothing in the NHRA Engine Blueprint Specifications says it IS allowed, so why is it ok?
I agree completely....it shouldn't be allowed.

NHRA's refusal to enforce it's own technical rules has, in effect, given tacit 'approval' for things like cam journal size changes and non-O.E. ring groove widths, just to name a couple of areas.

And now that the genie is out of the bottle, there's no way to put it back in. Even if NHRA wanted to, the logistics and dollars involved in trying to do so would be devastating to the racers financially and to the class that has seen steady participation...even growth...in the last years.

My belief is the best thing NHRA can do is to rewrite the Stock Eliminator engine rules to reflect where we're at now and go forward from there with enforcement.

With all that said, NHRA as a sanctioning body has a lot bigger things on their plate right now than enforcement of Stock Eliminator rules..... :shock:
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by LSP »

I think it's to the point where tech should consist of only pumping for cubic inches, whistle for compression, check valve lift, verify casting #'s, and check fuel.

And larger than OE diameter lifters are out there too.
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Re: Stock Eliminator secrets?

Post by tenxal »

LSP wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:18 amAnd larger than OE diameter lifters are out there too.
Oh, yeah..... :wink:
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