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Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

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PackardV8
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Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

We have a Studebaker friend who got sold a 288-degree advertised, 225-degree @ .050" cam for a 185" OHV 6-cyl.

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No surprise, he's not having any fun running the OEM 3-port single plane log intake with a tiny 1-bbl and the 4-port exhaust manifold.

With a 1-5-3-6-2-4 firing order, how would you design a dual plane or other 2-bbl intake to tame the cam?

It is to be hoped he can find a welder who still knows how to split the exhaust manifold.

Bottom line, will that cam ever make the little six happy in a street-driven pickup?

P.S. - if it were my project, it would be an ideal test for something I've always wanted to do for one of these - building an IR intake for three of the smaller SU carbs.

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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by BCjohnny »

With a 153624 firing order you'll likely want the following ...... but the siamesed ports won't help

The exhaust is easiest to deal with first , combine the three front 123 and three rear 456 cylinders together into one pipe each, and the combine those two pipes into one single to mate to the exhaust

Regarding the intake ...... triple carb set ups rarely perform as well as a twin set up, despite the marketing hype, again grouping 123 / 456, but with that siamesed middle intake upsetting that configuration, the triple may work better ..... only testing would tell

If it were me I'd put a pair of HIF44s on it, 123 / 456 and keep the siamesed middle port feed from each carb as separate as possible until it at least reaches the head face

I'm not familiar with the Stude 185, but would guess the intake port splits quite late just before the valve ? If not you could maybe get fancy and extend a vertical 'tongue' into the middle port to keep them as distinct as possible, with simple machining

One of the best production 153624 intake manifolds was fitted to the 2.5 Triumphs (TR6 etc) ...... they did two versions, the longer runner one performed well
TR6mani.jpg
JMO
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by frnkeore »

You could make a manifold, with individual tubes with 90* bends and use 3 of the old 1904 Holley 1 barrels on each tube and a small balance tube, like the SU manifold.

There's a good selection of ventri sizes, with that basic carb. I actually have a bunch of those carbs, I'd sell cheaper than most. I might even have a matching set of 3.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

frnkeore wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:28 pm You could make a manifold, with individual tubes with 90* bends and use 3 of the old 1904 Holley 1 barrels on each tube and a small balance tube, like the SU manifold.

There's a good selection of ventri sizes, with that basic carb. I actually have a bunch of those carbs, I'd sell cheaper than most. I might even have a matching set of 3.
Agree, the 90-degree with the Holley would look more period-correct
'murrican, while the SUs would definitely be 'furrin.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by BCjohnny »

P.S. - if it were my project, it would be an ideal test for something I've always wanted to do for one of these - building an IR intake for three of the smaller SU carbs.
Agree, the 90-degree with the Holley would look more period-correct ....... 'murrican, while the SUs would definitely be 'furrin
If it's less of an international incident, go with the Holleys ...... at least then we don't need to ready the gunboats :wink:

Regardless stay away from 90 deg bends ....... the 'look' isn't worth the loss
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

Well, it's moot. He's decided to go back to the stock cam.

I've always wanted to do the IR intake, so maybe I'll buy his takeout cam and have it on the shelf if an OHV Studebaker 6-cyl build ever shows up.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by Truckedup »

How about several Harley side draft carbs ? Sportster carbs should be about the right size and inexpensive compared to SU's. I never cared much for the SU's. They have no idle jet and rely on adjusting the main jet position in relation to the needle for the idle mixture.This can be a problem getting both the idle and part throttle mixture correct without a pile of needles to choose from...
But, who knows,two SU's off an MG might work ok...
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PackardV8
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

Truckedup wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:15 am How about several Harley side draft carbs ? Sportster carbs should be about the right size and inexpensive compared to SU's. I never cared much for the SU's. They have no idle jet and rely on adjusting the main jet position in relation to the needle for the idle mixture.This can be a problem getting both the idle and part throttle mixture correct without a pile of needles to choose from...
But, who knows,two SU's off an MG might work ok...
FWIW, back when Ak Miller, Ford and Hot Rod Complete Book of Engines were an Annual, an article in the 3rd Edition (1967) covered exactly what could be done adding carbs to a little six-cylinder. The first installment welded two additional carb pads to the integral intake manifold of a Ford 200" and bolted on two more stock carbs. It ran OK, albiet without sufficient hood clearance, so Ak felt side drafts were the way to go.

He cut four holes into the side of the manifold log and brazed on side-draft carb pads. He tested two SUs from a Jaguar, which worked very well. Next, he tried two H-D Sportster Tillotsons "which had more flat spots than a shaker full of dice" and finally four 750 Honda Keihins, which after considerable dyno tuning, "idled perfectly and pulled like fuel injection."

Despite Ford and HRM spending the time and money to promote it, the integral intake manifold proved an insurmountable barrier and the littlest Ford six never developed much of a following. (This, plus the SBF V8 was ubiquitous and would make more power for the same investment.)
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by Pete1 »

Here is a setup using 4 Harley carbs on a 4 banger, during fab process.
It worked very well.Image
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by frnkeore »

Ak, did some amazing thing with the little 200. He also did a full on, Bosch FI, as I remember.

Milled the log off and created individual ports. Very expensive, of course. Don't the Aussies have a X flow aluminum head for that engine? A little destoking and I think they would make great 3 & 4 liter, class engines.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

frnkeore wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:57 pm Ak, did some amazing thing with the little 200. He also did a full on, Bosch FI, as I remember.
Don't remember that one, but would love a link to read up on it.

I do remember the Bosch mechanical FI installation he did on the big Ford 300" 6-cyl.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by MichaelThompson »

Here are the Ak Miller Ford 6 cylinder engines we’re talking about all on one magazine cover. I believe these were all based on the 170” six which was still 4 main bearings.

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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by PackardV8 »

Thanks for the cover shot. The injected Falcon 170" appears to be a Hillborn.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by frnkeore »

PackardV8 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:37 pm
frnkeore wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:57 pm Ak, did some amazing thing with the little 200. He also did a full on, Bosch FI, as I remember.
Don't remember that one, but would love a link to read up on it.

I do remember the Bosch mechanical FI installation he did on the big Ford 300" 6-cyl.
You are right. This is the pic from the book "The Compete Book of Ford" dated 1970.

The article is that the picture appears in, is all about the 144-250 engine, it doesn't even specify that it's a 240-300, in the description of it and it was a long time back, that I first read it. My mistake.

It's not in that book but, in something I have, it pictures a 170 that is milled flat on the In/Ex manifold. I'll have to find that and see what they mounted on it.
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Re: Intake and exhaust manifold fabrication for a small 6-cyl

Post by Truckedup »

Huh, early production Tempest with a 389? 400 inch 283? Interesting issue... that same year Hot Rod did a article on Ak miller supercharging the Falcon, Corvair and Valient..
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