Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

I know it is completely arbitrary and does not actually matter.

But it would be easier for me to remember, if there was any logical reason or interesting story behind it.

I am aware of other engines probably predating the ford V8 that had the front right cylinder #1, for no apparent reason.
It must have been a prior convention to do so.....
I imagined a story of it being the engineers in the the 30's forever reminding us that cars should be right hand drive.

But even if there WAS some prior convention, why would FORD have gone with it?
The more I learn about the life and times of Henry Ford, I think it's more likely he would have done the opposite of convention just out of spite.

You read from left to right, & top to bottom. Even on a blueprint it looks backwards to most people.

What do you think?

A related question - what is the cylinder numbering on a V12 aero engine seeing the installed position is opposite to a motor vehicle. The business end faces the front, not the back. Some people consider that aero engines rotate backwards compared to car engines. AFAIK they don't, the drive end rotates anticlockwise in both case. The propeller is not the same as a radiator fan!

Then there's the Pontiac conundrum. Forward cylinder on the passenger side yet it's called #2? That's probably caused as many problems as Ford's 2 different Windsor firing orders.

I would say that because the engine rotates clockwise, when viewed from the front, the first cylinder to fire, is the one that Ford calls #1.

If the engine rotated counter or as they say in the UK, anticlockwise, then GM would have it right.

If you wanna be confused check out porsche numbered the cylinders.

Or ferrari.

Then there's Jag, cylinders are numbered 1-6 starting at the flywheel, so #6 is the front cylinder. Yet the main caps are numbered 1-6 starting at the front.

Or International using #8 cylinder for ignition timing

My understanding of clockwise rotation, what side of the road to drive on, which way a drill spins, which way a lathe goes,
is it all comes from right-handedness.


Just very curious why and if it was for the same reason or just coincidence......that a Ford a Ferarri and a VW start with the front right.

GM is pretty easy to understand. At first they numbered the cylinder front to back as they go on the crank.
Then, it was decided to stay WITH the same external pattern when they later acquired other V8 engines that were staggered the other way.

modok wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:23 am I know it is completely arbitrary and does not actually matter.

But it would be easier for me to remember, if there was any logical reason or interesting story behind it.

'Left' is very 'sinister.'

I guess we can blame this on the first sundials. When they are set in the Northerly direction, the shadow, moves in a clockwise direction or maybe we could also blame, Peter Henlein. Historically speaking, the first modern clock was created by German inventor Peter Henlein who introduced to the world Spring-driven clock around 1511. I guess he would be the one to blame for a 360* rotation, in that direction.

As for cylinder numbering, I look at it as the first cylinder on a bank to come to TDC and fire, of course, in a CW direction, that has to be the left bank, facing the engine or, the right bank, setting behind it.

Maybe if GM had invented the clock, we'd all be singing a different tune?

Then of course, there are specialty engines, that turn CCW, twin screw boats and airplanes and lets not forget the radial engine. Where's #1 on a radial? Maybe it would depend on whether Ford or GM built it but, would it be L,R, top or bottom to be correct? In that case, even though I'm a Ford guy, I'd put it on the bottom (easiest to get at on a aircraft).

if you number the cylinders LIKE a clock, I suppose then it would make sense to make the right #1 IF viewing it from the flywheel end. And in the very old days you probbly would be. But then you'd think the #1 would be by the flywheel also. if you number them as a clock from the other end, zero being UP, then it's backwards.

It makes sense in an OVERHEAD view, if you put draw it with the front to the left. And that could be why. most people would start at the left, and draw the front first. Plausible as anything. Tho I would probably put the front up actually......
So why draw it sideways? because he used a chalk-board which was wider than it is tall?

I work on several engines that don't have a distinct front or back.
But the first thing I do is pick an end and stamp it, and that's the front, learned the hard way.
I even line bored a detroit with the caps on backwards once, turns out it didn't matter, but I got a heck of a scare when I realized. Just had to re-mark them.

modok wrote: ↑Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:23 am ...
I am aware of other engines probably predating the ford V8 that had the front right cylinder #1, for no apparent reason.
It must have been a prior convention to do so.....
...

I think (Henry) Ford simply wanted to be able to counter any patent challenges by citing the different numbering order. Certainly any engineer worth their snuff could confabulate important differences sufficient to baffle examiners.

Ala:

https://youtu.be/MXW0bx_Ooq4

cylinder numbering? what's the firing order on a 2 cylinder engine?

HAHA
If they fire 360 apart nobody needs to know.
But if they don't, then you do need to know. wires cannot be swapped.