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7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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BOOT
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7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

Ok so I have two retainers a 11/32 7deg and a 8mm 7deg, if I put them on the same 11/32 valve with 11/32 locks(keepers). They have about the same visual spring height & locks fit the retainer about the same. Now this is a raised + height 8mm retainer and if I use a standard 8mm retainer the 11/32 locks stick out the top a lot BUT the raised height 8mm retainer fits the 11/32 valve/locks to the eye the same as an actual 11/32 retainer.

Measure top and bottom ID's are within a few thousands and the lock contact height also

I mean can't see why they wouldn't work and I know for sure the one is a 8mm retainer but I'm no expert in retainers
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

I mean then you could use any 11/32 7deg retainer as a raised height retainer on a 8mm valve & locks, right?
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by ProPower engines »

Yeah NO.
Been down this road years ago with Crane retainers. They had their own locks to fit their retainers.
Every other lock was close but not the same fit. I seen guys do this and break valves at the groove or pull the tip
through the retainer.
You are just better off to get the correct lock+retainer combo for the job.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

I've mixed diff brand locks with retainers alot on sbc 11/32 7deg, no issues so far but my stuff isn't max out anyway. For example used +0.050 one brand and -0.050 another on the same engine with another brand retainer.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by ProPower engines »

BOOT wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:55 pm I've mixed diff brand locks with retainers alot on sbc 11/32 7deg, no issues so far but my stuff isn't max out anyway. For example used +0.050 one brand and -0.050 another on the same engine with another brand retainer.
Yes if you using the same taper degree then thats a non issue but using a 7 degree in an 8 degree retainer is asking for it.......

The same degree of taper from an isky comp or pioneer etc is the same but the 8 degree is not and intended to use the 7 degree locks with it. OR vice versa.

You may get away with mix/matching different degree of lockV retainers till one day....................boom.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by PRH »

You have all the various pieces in your hand.

No one in the great interweb is going to be able to assess the overall fitment of how those particular various pieces go together better than you.

When you’re mixing and matching parts, ultimately the person assembling the heads is the one who has to be satisfied with the valve/keeper/retainer inter-fit.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by Geoff2 »

The problem is with the stem diameters. There is about a 0.030" difference between 11/32" & 8mm, with 8 mm being smaller. Using a 11/32" keepers on 8mm stems would not be a tight on the stems; & using 8mm keepers on 11/32" stems would be tight, maybe potentially worse, because there would be a force on the keepers trying to spread them & they might fail.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

7 deg 11/32 retainer & 7 deg 8mm retainer

11/32 keepers with 11/32 valves

8mm keepers with 8mm valves

8mm retainer with 11/32 keepers & 11/32 valve

11/32 retainer with 8mm keepers & 8mm valve
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by modok »

Yes 7 degree IS 7 degree taper, but the keepers will be out of round if the stem is not the right size for them.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

I agree use 8mm keepers with 8mm valves and 11/32 keepers with 11/32 valves


Although there are some threads on here where people have used 5/16 keepers on 8mm valves w/o issue BUT not the other way.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by Walter R. Malik »

BOOT wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:52 pm I mean then you could use any 11/32 7deg retainer as a raised height retainer on a 8mm valve & locks, right?
As long as the locks don't show out of the bottom of that retainer, (underside), it will probably work.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by 1972ho »

You might run into problems when it’s time to take them out sometimes it’s hard to break the retainer from the keepers even with the proper set when spring loads are high.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by BOOT »

1972ho wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:15 am You might run into problems when it’s time to take them out sometimes it’s hard to break the retainer from the keepers even with the proper set when spring loads are high.
They won't have a ton of pressure when I test on a mild combo but if things get unstable...
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by amc fan »

You can coat locks with Prussian blue install on valve and pull retainer up and spin retainer around so you can see by the rub off how much the 8mm and 11/32 locks engage the retainer. I used to cut my retainers in the lathe to get a little more installed height or to get roller tip to retainer clearance.
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Re: 7 Degrees Is 7 deg Right?

Post by Geoff2 »

Don't understand taking the risk with incorrectly sized keepers when the correct ones are so cheap.......
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