Speed-Talk is running on www.Speed-Talk.com

IMPORTANT: Update your bookmarks to https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/
(Right-click the URL and select "Bookmark this link")

Project SF-110 upgrade

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
BradH
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am
Location:

Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by BradH »

I posted elsewhere on here that I was doing an upgrade to my old SuperFlow SF-110 bench and someone asked if I could provide more details. OK...

First, I'd LOVE to have a "big" bench, but I can't justify the $, nor is my home's electrical infrastructure set up for something that pulls so much juice. Since I ran into an issue w/ my 20 year-old "toy" bench some time back, I looked into some level of affordable upgrades while I was going to have repair it anyway.

Second, eBarf has been extremely helpful in sourcing stuff at decent -- sometimes even downright cheap -- prices on new and nice used items.

/////////////////////

The components upgrade are going as follows:
- new intake motors w/ higher capacity
- new exhaust motors w/ higher capacity
- new 4" inclined manometer replacing original 2"
- digital manometer with 60" H2O capability replacing original 15" H20 unit (hand-held unit that will mount to front of bench using Velcro so the batteries can be replaced when needed)
- larger diameter flow controller orifice for intake only
- and the plenum of the bench needs some additional flow directors added that were something SF incorporated into later production runs

/////////////////////

My original intent was to replace only the intake motors, so the model I chose for that purpose are different than what I ended up buying for the exhaust. These are the model numbers and applications of the various motors:
1. 116297-00 - original SF-110 Int & Exh
2. 116662-49 - replacement Exh motors
3. 119419-00 - replacement Int motors

Performance data from their respective product data sheets showing the flow & suction improvements of the replacements over the original motor:

CFM @ X" H2O ratings for orifice size specified

Vac Motor # -------- 0.000" ------------- .500" -------------- 1.000" -------------- 1.500" ----------------- 2.000"
116297-00 -------- 0.0 @ 60.6" -------- 23.0 @ 47.7" -------- 70.0 @ 27.5" -------- 106.0 @ 12.6" -------- 123.0 @ 5.3"
116662-49 -------- 0.0 @ 78.8" -------- 26.4 @ 62.4" -------- 81.9 @ 37.6" -------- 120.5 @ 16.1" -------- 135.1 @ 6.4"
119419-00 -------- 0.0 @ 80.6" -------- 24.7 @ 63.0" -------- 79.6 @ 41.2" -------- 128.4 @ 21.0" -------- 150.4 @ 8.9"

CFM @ X" H2O ratings for approx vacuum level specified and (orifice size) used

Vac Motor # -----~ 40" H2O --------------~--- 30" H2O -----------~--- 16" H2O ---------~--- Max Amps
116297-00 -----~ 34.0 @ 42.4" (.625) -----~ 58.0 @ 31.9" (.875) -----~ 92.0 @ 16.6" (1.250) -------~ 6.9
116662-49 -----~ 67.5 @ 43.6" (.875) -----~ 94.8 @ 31.5" (1.125 ----~ 120.5 @ 16.1" (1.500) -------~ 9.2
119419-00 -----~ 79.6 @ 41.2" (1.000) ---~ 107.6 @ 30.5" (1.250) ---~ 128.4 @ 21.0" (1.500) -------~ 9.9

I did need to update my basement shop outlet to have 20A capacity vs the original 15A. Most new(er) houses probably have 20A standard now, but our house was built in the 1980s.

////////////////////

I picked up a 3" inclined manometer initially as an upgrade from the standard 2", along with some of the violet manometer fluid with a higher SG than the normal red fluid. Later I came across a nice 4" version. Dwyer says 2" & 3" manometers are accurate to +/- 2%, but 4" & 6" manometers are accurate to +/- 1%.

Affect on manometer delta P when changing from standard red oil to violet oil:
- Red gage oil = .826 specific gravity
- Violet gage oil = 1.000 specific gravity
- 1.211 correction factor

Manometer range based on standard red vs violet gage oil:
3.0"
3.0" * 1.211 = 3.632"
4.0"
4.0" * 1.211 = 4.844"

Calc'd max range for X delta P = Y @ 10" H2O applied to SF-110 baseline capacity of 185 @ 2" delta P:
3.0" - 1.224 = 226.6
3.632" - 1.348 = 249.4
4.0" - 1.411 = 261.0
4.844" - 1.550 = 286.8

////////////////////

My test pressures varied dramatically w/ the flow rate, considering the limitations of the SF-110 bench, and relied heavily on conversion factors:
0 to ~ 175 (28" conv.) at 15"
~ 175 to ~ 225 (28" conv.) at 13"
~ 225 to ~ 275 (28" conv.) at 10"
~ 275 to ~ 320 (28" conv.) at 8" or 9" (depends upon the port)
~ 320+ (28" conv.) at 7"

The highest flowing heads I ever tested were 350-ish on the intake (28" conv.). I'm basing the manometer & gage fluid choice on some rough projections for flow & pressure improvements. If I figure a max flow capability of 380 CFM @ 28" H2O, this "reverse converts" to:
- 258.9 @ 13.0"
- 248.7 @ 12.0"
- 238.2 @ 11.0"
- 227.1 @ 10.0"

Using an guess-timate of the new bench config being able to pull 227.1 @ 10" H2O, the different manometer/fluid configs would read this % of X Range:
3.0" --- 226.6 = 100.0
3.632" - 249.4 = 91.0
4.0" --- 261.0 = 87.0
4.844" - 286.8 = 79.2

And comparing this to the 350 CFM of heads like I have now, 350 CFM @ 28.0" H2O = 209.2 @ 10.0", the different manometer/fluid configs would read this % of X Range:
3.0" --- 226.6 = 92.3
3.632" - 249.4 = 83.9
4.0" --- 261.0 = 80.2
4.844" - 286.8 = 72.9

I'll start with the 4.0" inclined manometer and the red gage oil. If the new intake motors, etc., pull harder & higher than my initial estimates, I can switch to the violet gage oil to extend the range more.

////////////////////

I've already thrown together a quickie spreadsheet that converts the 4.0" manometer scale into the appropriate % values based upon the .02" increments on the original scale. Each .02" on the scale is approx .3% across readings above 70%.

////////////////////

The bench wiring is being upgraded to handle 20A, too, so as to redcue the likelihood of another electrical issue that initiated this wayward project in the first place.

Finally(?), I'm running the power supply through a Variac so I can adjust motor speeds, as well as use the flow using the flow controller valves, for tests where the motors don't need to be flat-out all the time.

FWIW, a couple of pics showing the 4" inclined manometer and digital manometer that will replace the original components.
s-l1600.jpg
s-l1600-2.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Powertrip
Pro
Pro
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:09 am
Location: North West Indiana

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by Powertrip »

Thanks for the update!
The price of progress is trouble.
rebelrouser
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1476
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 2:25 pm
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by rebelrouser »

Just curious, why even mess with old tube style manometers? Why not just go digital and forget it? I have only had homemade flowbenches, this is my last upgrade, 8 vacuum motors, variable motor control, and digital manometer. so far very happy with it. I think I got an air leak that I have to track down, seems it is a little generous on the .100 lift readings, but at 28 inches it hits a calibration test plate perfect.

When I first converted to digital, I also kept the manometers as a backup, but soon realized that for me it was just not worth keeping the fluid up, and sometimes sucking the fluid out of the tubes, watching the computer.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
learner1
Member
Member
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:15 am
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by learner1 »

Are you able to convert it to 220v? It's half the current draw and you can use the 120v motors.
BradH
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by BradH »

In no particular order...
- I got the 4" inclined manometer pictured for about $30 shipped; think "budget"
- There's no readily accessible 220v outlet currently, other than one in an unheated garage that goes through some fairly wide temp changes during the year; I've never bothered to check what the amp capacity is
- I've had the PTS plans for a few years and would like to build one like that, if I had the right setup

Also, for those people who have sent me PMs on this, I'm having a technical issue where I can't see PMs being sent to me. All I get is a notification that someone's sent one that I'm not allowed to view. I've notified the site admins.
mag2555
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3542
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:31 am
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by mag2555 »

In terms of 120 volt and having reserve current you can wire in another 15 amp outlet that's on another breaker, you just need to confirm that when pretesting with a voltmeter that across nutral to neutral you DO NOT get on voltage reading and then hot to hot you get no voltage reading either.

This confirms they are in phase with each other and you will not see fire works until one or the other breaker trips when you plug things in!
You can cut a man's tongue from his mouth, but that does not mean he’s a liar, it just shows that you fear the truth he might speak about you!
GARY C
HotPass
HotPass
Posts: 6107
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by GARY C »

Brad, do you have access to an SF600 or similar bench to confirm your 110 #'s? Years back I thought about upgrading my 110 bench but all of the heads and test orifices I had tested on 3 separate 600 benches were all within a cpl of CFM of what I got from my 110 so I decided it wasn't worth it for what I do.
I only do my own heads for SBC in the 700 lift range so 300 ish CFM range, I did have a loose connection one time so I moved my intake motors to the exhaust side and visa versa while I had it opened because the exhaust motors have far less time on them and I don't spend much time on the bench when I do exhaust ports.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBERS AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!
BradH
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by BradH »

In the past I had Dwayne Porter ("PRH") flow three of my heads on his Saenz S-600 and the results were typically within a few CFM. However, the standard SF-110 really struggled to show small, but meaningful, changes as I was trying to work on heads flowing well over 300 CFM.

The next heads I expect to be porting are my second set of Edelbrock Victors for BB Mopars. We know those heads can go 350+/- with a standard 440-size port entry. Dwayne and I both think it will be helpful for my bench to have some extra oomph, even if it's still well below what a "big" machine can do.

FWIW, my corrected & converted test numbers were consistently about 2% lower than my PTS 100/200/300 calibration plates.
BradH
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:34 am
Location:

Re: Project SF-110 upgrade

Post by BradH »

As many others have mentioned in the past, one of the limitations w/ relying on such heavy conversion factors is that ports tested at the low(er) test pressures don't necessarily show the same"behavior as high(er) pressures.

I think a good example is that my converted numbers were very close to what PRH got on his "real" bench, but the port stalled at a lower lift at 28" H2O. On mine it didn't plateau until .750+", but it was already there at .700" w/ his.

I've also seen an example where a smaller bench simply couldn't keep up with the flow potential of a bigger volume & higher flowing head. The converted numbers looked reasonable up to a certain point in the lift curve, but above that the small bench was out of its element. The big bench showed the flow kept increasing at higher lifts than the small bench could handle.
Post Reply