Why would you want a electric car ?
Moderator: Team
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
EV's should come with a swappable battery just like your cell phone and your cordless drill.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
I totally agree.
Should be standardized battery packs. And I think there will be.
The market for electric cars is still ironically -high end/luxury- and so they aren't concerned with it at the moment.
Should be standardized battery packs. And I think there will be.
The market for electric cars is still ironically -high end/luxury- and so they aren't concerned with it at the moment.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
Two different suggestions at work above.Should be standardized battery packs. And I think there will be.
The battery packs are swappable. GM is at present replacing the battery pack on all 180,000 Bolts because maybe ten of them have caught fire. The swap takes one technician five hours. If you mean swappable in five minutes, that is unlikely to happen next generation. Been tried but abandoned for now.
As to standardized battery packs, just as with engines and tranmissions, technology changes so rapidly and packaging requirements change every model change, OEMs are unlikely to accept universal standards.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
Standardization of key parts like the battery reduce unit costs
Economy of scale.. So far EV's are boutique novelties for
rich people. If they want to replace the ICE in large numbers and be the dominate power method of the car/truck fleet they need to make EV's much cheaper and easy to service.. Economy of scale thru standardized key parts.
Just like Henry Ford did with the Model T.
Until the model T and its ecomony of scale fast low cost manufacturing methods cars were boutique novelties of the well to do.. Henry Ford made cars that the every man could buy and fix.
What goes around comes around. Tesla needs to get their act together. The average Joe does not want nor need a car that can run 10's in the 1/4 mi. in ludicrice mode. The public needs a EV that sells for under $22k.
Economy of scale.. So far EV's are boutique novelties for
rich people. If they want to replace the ICE in large numbers and be the dominate power method of the car/truck fleet they need to make EV's much cheaper and easy to service.. Economy of scale thru standardized key parts.
Just like Henry Ford did with the Model T.
Until the model T and its ecomony of scale fast low cost manufacturing methods cars were boutique novelties of the well to do.. Henry Ford made cars that the every man could buy and fix.
What goes around comes around. Tesla needs to get their act together. The average Joe does not want nor need a car that can run 10's in the 1/4 mi. in ludicrice mode. The public needs a EV that sells for under $22k.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
What the public needs and what they choose to buy has no convergence. FWIW, the average retail of new vehicles in the US is now above $40,000. Few actually need a Quad Cab King Ranch Harley Davidson Special Edition 2500 F250 which averages 13.5 MPG, but they stand in line to pay $75,000 for the next one available.
FWIW, the car cost of the EV is essentially the same as an ICE and the motor/drivetrain is actually less. Once the battery costs achieve the economy of scale you mention, an EV would cost less than an ICE. Key to speeding up transition is a carbon tax, but no politician can be re-elected doing the right thing if it's going to bring short-term economic pain to the voters.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
Batteries degrade over time even if they are just stored and not used.
Once you battery performance drops too low for an EV It could be used for some other purpose.
Why would you NOT do that?
If you want to run an EV battery until it's 60% "used up" you are just hauling around 40% dead weight, what a waste.
Once you battery performance drops too low for an EV It could be used for some other purpose.
Why would you NOT do that?
If you want to run an EV battery until it's 60% "used up" you are just hauling around 40% dead weight, what a waste.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
ICE performance degrades over the miles. How many out on the road every day are operating at far lower efficiency than when new? We see many Audi/M-B, BMWs scrapped because the cost of R&R an engine is greater than the value of the running car. Never own a German car after the warranty has expired.modok wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:34 pm Batteries degrade over time even if they are just stored and not used.
Once you battery performance drops too low for an EV It could be used for some other purpose.
Why would you NOT do that?
If you want to run an EV battery until it's 60% "used up" you are just hauling around 40% dead weight, what a waste.
But yes, at some future EV generation, replacement of batteries will be far easier than replacing an ICE engine in today's cars.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
That is an interesting question, it sure varies. Most are over-rated and some are under-rated
Same with batteries
Same with batteries
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
FYI,I got a ride in a Tesla on a Uber trip a couple days ago.Talked to the owner about the cost to charge it.He drives about 20K miles a year and it costs him $200 a month to charge it at home.He has the 220 charger.He says its usually about $16- $18 dollars to do a quick charge at a Tesla charge station depending on how low it is.Tom
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
So $2,400 per year to drive 20,000 miles. 12c/mile or 7.5c/km
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Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
That guy’s rate for power must be insanely high, but maybe I’m just spoiled living in SC. I’ve driven 24k miles in the 15 months I’ve owned my Model S, and I pay about $60/month to charge at home with 220.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
If a seventy-six-year-old gear head can tell everyone an EV is the perfect local use car, believe it. Since we're in the Pacific Northwest USA, most of our electricity generation comes from hydro power, the kilowatts are affordable. It costs less to power our car than to heat our hot tub.PSA wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:19 pm I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
What is not high in CA?pretty much all major brand gas is right at or over $5,91 in the $5.45 range.Tom
Re: Why would you want a electric car ?
I really don't mind electric cars, especially if it means that we can keep our old cars and race cars for recreational use in the future.PackardV8 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:34 pmIf a seventy-six-year-old gear head can tell everyone an EV is the perfect local use car, believe it. Since we're in the Pacific Northwest USA, most of our electricity generation comes from hydro power, the kilowatts are affordable. It costs less to power our car than to heat our hot tub.PSA wrote: ↑Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:19 pm I wouldn't mind one for local trips, shopping, etc.
But the way it is right now here, we actually set a European record in fuel prices $8.30/gallon for gasoline and a couple of cents more for diesel.
And it was still cheaper than an electric car.
Volvo also released a study a week or two ago that show how much green electricity that is needed to actually make a benefit over ICE, and it's not much fossil fuel at all that can be used in the making of electricity.
I guess we have to start somewhere, but it sure is a long way yet.
But here it's not more "green" at the moment, as the green politics has shut down nuclear power plants, so we are burning oil here and importing coal power from other countries. 1kw/h was $0.88 the other day.