What's better A timing chain setup or a gear drive setup

[GARY C]

But over time they all changed to belts or chains, maybe because gears were not as good as they thought?

Well they didn't all change, but for passenger cars it's the quietest cheapest thing that'll do the job that gets picked.

Anything gears requires setting backlash, etc.

Throw a belt or a chain on and let the tensioner take care of it. Easy, fast, and in OEM’s cases, cheap (which equals profit).

Which leads to a timing system that the average consumer can afford and will last hundreds of thousands of miles, everyone wins.

[Alaskaracer]

Ya, Fluidampr is trying to replace the ATI elastomer, but continue to fail miserably! Lol
I've tested more of that shit than I care to think about.
Your making strong statements as if thwy are gospel, have you done any actual testing on the two subjects?
Not "flaming", serious question.

Warp,

I've spent several hours on the phone with the engineers at Fluidampr... It's been very enlightening. When I asked ATI about the same things, basically given the cold shoulder. You'd think that if someone called and wanted more information they would be willing to help....but noooooo....must be some type of super duper top secret information that only they know or something. My experience with ATI hasn't been good, and they lost a customer as a result. Have I done testing? No, don't have the resources or ability to do that...I wish I did because I certainly would....

Please clarify how Fluidampr continues to "fail miserably".....curious minds want to know!

[Tom68]

I've spent several hours on the phone with the engineers at Fluidampr... It's been very enlightening. When I asked ATI about the same things, basically given the cold shoulder.

Engineers that can talk the talk compared to a random ATI employee ?

We had a Damper take the front off a crank at the Thunderdome, it went through the Windscreen of the following ex Ron Bouchard Buick that had been reskinned to a Pontiac Aero, broke the drivers Collarbone on the way past, I'll have to see if he still has it (stayed in the car) I'm sure he'll remember what brand it was.

[RCJ]

When we got the money to buy lite weight parts ,started having timing chain problems. An 8" ATI balancers solved the problem. I can see how your ability to solve balance problems would dictate chain. Belt or gear

[Warp Speed]

Ya, Fluidampr is trying to replace the ATI elastomer, but continue to fail miserably! Lol
I've tested more of that shit than I care to think about.
Your making strong statements as if thwy are gospel, have you done any actual testing on the two subjects?
Not "flaming", serious question.

Warp,

I've spent several hours on the phone with the engineers at Fluidampr... It's been very enlightening. When I asked ATI about the same things, basically given the cold shoulder. You'd think that if someone called and wanted more information they would be willing to help....but noooooo....must be some type of super duper top secret information that only they know or something. My experience with ATI hasn't been good, and they lost a customer as a result. Have I done testing? No, don't have the resources or ability to do that...I wish I did because I certainly would....

Please clarify how Fluidampr continues to "fail miserably".....curious minds want to know!

It starts with where your getting your information. Of course the engineers at Fluidampr are going to tell you that their products are superior. Do you think they would say different? And it is true they have been trying really hard for years to produce a damper that will work better than an elastomer. Unfortunately they always fall short. Like I said, we test these constantly, and there are areas where the fluidampr controls very well, but it is in a very narrow rpm range. Typically when they are in their range, they only do one thing well. They may control torsional twist, but bending is the problem, or versa visa as you move through the rpm range. Elastomer type, at this point anyway, have still proved superior in controlling twist and bending over a wider rpm range. We have tested literally hundredes of od diameter, oring number, durometer and material, and inertia ring designs and continue to do so.
As far as the chain vs belt deal goes (and gears for that matter) they all have their strong and weak points. Chains are strong, but stretch over time, create heat and aren't really good at dampening vibrations. Belts work very well for this, but can have trouble with instantaneous rpm due to stretching with load. Gear drives are very precise, but are terrible at transferring vibrations, and expensive quill type drives and cam dampers are needed for high rpm endurance applications. Belt construction has cam a long way in the past 25 years! Roush Racing had a super chain back in the late 90s that was about indestructible. These days all engines use belts. There has to be a reason?
Typically, the only time a gear drive is needed is when you are overpowering the belt construction, such as big hp power adders with huge spring and firing loads. Much like aluminum rods, at that point your not looking for efficiency, but just trying to get the thing to live.

[Warp Speed]

Steve Morris use's gear drive's on his SMX 4500+hp monsters!

True, but they also have huge spring pressure, firing loads and also drive the fuel pump. We run gear drives on our 3500+hp stuff too, but again, purely for brute strength.
Every design has its strong and weak points.

[frnkeore]

and there are areas where the fluidampr controls very well, but it is in a very narrow rpm range.

I must ask, what is that rpm range and is it the same for all engine types?

[Dave Koehler]

My first reaction to this thread was Oh no, not this again.
My stand is Gears for me but not for thee. Daily driver is the exception.
I will play a little.
Excluding any gear harmonic issues here, real or imagined.
The condemnation for gear backlash is a non starter. At the outset, it's a small number on a 2 or 3 gear version.
All warmed up and screaming it's still a small number.

Historical Gear to gear second guess.
The 6 cyl Chevy from the 60s into the 80s had fiber cam gears for tight, quiet operation.
Naturally after 60k miles they would be worn, sometimes excessively and we would roll our eyes at Detroit.
We would "upgrade" them to a cast aluminum gear.
Did we improve anything at all, including harmonics? Doubtful

[pamotorman]

after seeing 2 "dog bone" connectors break i quit using low price gear drives

[Dave Koehler]

after seeing 2 "dog bone" connectors break i quit using low price gear drives

I have used those personally without issue but didn't care for them. Always wondering.
I have witnessed the breakage with circle track cars but not drag cars. I suppose it's the on/off nature of the CT cars that does it.

[pamotorman]

these were supercharged boat motors

[Dave Koehler]

these were supercharged boat motors

Yup, that would do it also.