Joe-71 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:28 am
If that cast iron intake manifold will flow 182 cfm through all 8 runners, then he should be able to make 318 hp with a good head port, metric ring package, good solid lifter camshaft, and light weight valve train. Anything over 9.5-10.4:1 compression should get there with premium fuel. The exhaust manifolds can be hand ported, or extrude honed, and if you really want to push the envelope, hand port the manifold and then send it to extrude hone to clean up those tight corners that a burr would have trouble reaching. This endeavor sounds similar to an EMC challenge that has been proven possible. Joe-71
Hi, Joe, I'm not a fan of Extrude Honing for two reasons:
It makes what's bad worse, and what's good slightly better. It will not remove material in the short side of a radius, and remove most material from the long side.
They don't really like to do cast iron as they say, "It's as slow as a cat eatin' a grindstone." Last quote I got from Extrude Hone to do a cast iron V8 intake was $1500.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Joe-71 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:28 am
If that cast iron intake manifold will flow 182 cfm through all 8 runners, then he should be able to make 318 hp with a good head port, metric ring package, good solid lifter camshaft, and light weight valve train. Anything over 9.5-10.4:1 compression should get there with premium fuel. The exhaust manifolds can be hand ported, or extrude honed, and if you really want to push the envelope, hand port the manifold and then send it to extrude hone to clean up those tight corners that a burr would have trouble reaching. This endeavor sounds similar to an EMC challenge that has been proven possible. Joe-71
8 cylinders, that's 8 intake strokes for 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation, lets say the effective intake stroke of the intake ports is a lowly 180 degrees, i.e. no inertia charging (and by hell it's gunna need that) that's 1440 degrees of intake strokes in 720 degrees of crank rotation, the carby has to flow around 300 cfm at 28". It isn't happening if all the air has to enter past those standard size butterflies in that baby carby and we're not using Nitro.
Pull the butterflies out and turn it into an oval single barrel and it might just do it.
Thought I better add the Nitro option since Uncle toby's involved.
1 barrel.JPG
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Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Joe-71 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:28 am
If that cast iron intake manifold will flow 182 cfm through all 8 runners, then he should be able to make 318 hp with a good head port, metric ring package, good solid lifter camshaft, and light weight valve train. Anything over 9.5-10.4:1 compression should get there with premium fuel. The exhaust manifolds can be hand ported, or extrude honed, and if you really want to push the envelope, hand port the manifold and then send it to extrude hone to clean up those tight corners that a burr would have trouble reaching. This endeavor sounds similar to an EMC challenge that has been proven possible. Joe-71
8 cylinders, that's 8 intake strokes for 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation, lets say the effective intake stroke of the intake ports is a lowly 180 degrees, i.e. no inertia charging (and by hell it's gunna need that) that's 1440 degrees of intake strokes in 720 degrees of crank rotation, the carby has to flow around 300 cfm at 28". It isn't happening if all the air has to enter past those standard size butterflies in that baby carby and we're not using Nitro.
Pull the butterflies out and turn it into an oval single barrel and it might just do it.
Thought I better add the Nitro option since Uncle toby's involved.
1 barrel.JPG
You make a good point.
2 liter 4 banger 195hp/6250rpm, 170degree@1mm lift cam and single 60mm throttle body on a dryflow manifold, so 159cfm per runner without the butterfly shaft? (Maybe i said 153cfm airflow hp limitation on a video lol..) 183cfm through one runner with or without the throttle body.
Its just amazing that some guys will swap cams with you and want to do their own testing with a 10 degree longer cam instead of listening to a throttle body and/or plenum mod for dyno hp! The same guy whose engine you were in charge of and helped to win the series..
-juhana
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Super_Stock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 5:19 pm
Charles is a member here, maybe we should be focusing on what he's trying to do and support him in that effort, instead of complaining about someone else's Youtube content and why he gets more views than others do.
I don't think there is enough support in this world for people trying things. Way too many people want to be in the "can't be done" camp.
The reason I suggested hand porting the intake manifold before sending it to extrude hone is because the process does not correct the shape of the port, only smoothes out the interior and enlarges the passages as they are. I have flowed several intakes that have been extruded, and was disappointed in the process. It is expensive for what you get in increase of performance, and my only suggestion was to agree that it is possible to make 1 hp/ci with an iron headed/intake manifold engine with proper selection of components and a bit of imagination in the process. I have ported iron intakes that had 180 cfm runners out to nearly 285 cfm average, so I do have experience with the process. No one even mentioned using acid to enlarge the ports, so that is still something to consider, also. BTDT on a lot of Stock Eliminator builds. Joe-71
Stan Weiss wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:17 am
JMO
Charlie is seeing lets say 205 - 210 cfm without the carb @ 28" water. I believe the carb DV modified is flowing well above that @ 28" water. So the engine seeing 5.5- 6" Hg @ WOT peak HP RPM will have enough flow for 318 ci 318 HP Remember 2 barrels are rate @ 3" Hg from the factory.
Stan
Tom68 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:21 am
8 cylinders, that's 8 intake strokes for 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation, lets say the effective intake stroke of the intake ports is a lowly 180 degrees, i.e. no inertia charging (and by hell it's gunna need that) that's 1440 degrees of intake strokes in 720 degrees of crank rotation, the carby has to flow around 300 cfm at 28". It isn't happening if all the air has to enter past those standard size butterflies in that baby carby and we're not using Nitro.
Pull the butterflies out and turn it into an oval single barrel and it might just do it.
Thought I better add the Nitro option since Uncle toby's involved.
1 barrel.JPG
The DV modified carb will flow the needed cfm for 318 HP. As I said above seeing 5.5- 6" Hg @ WOT peak HP RPM which is 74.77-81.57" of water.
Does anyone know what kind of HP is be made from a Holley 500 CFM which is rated at 3" Hg / 40.785" of water?
Unfortunately, this guy is still not securing the carb and spacers to the manifold with bolts or studs, so leak from between the flanges from the side is killing his flow numbers.
Stan Weiss wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:49 am
The DV modified carb will flow the needed cfm for 318 HP. As I said above seeing 5.5- 6" Hg @ WOT peak HP RPM which is 74.77-81.57" of water.
Does anyone know what kind of HP is be made from a Holley 500 CFM which is rated at 3" Hg / 40.785" of water?
Stan
(stolen from an internet search)
a gauge legal Holley 4412 500cfm has a hard time beyond about 470 hp, the 7448 350cfm is done at 415 hp
Tuner wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:34 pm
(stolen from an internet search)
a gauge legal Holley 4412 500cfm has a hard time beyond about 470 hp, the 7448 350cfm is done at 415 hp
Assumed to be on a 350 no doubt, was the 350 gauge legal.
415 from a 350, I'm betting that'd have to be a 500 + HP engine with an appropriate size carby fitted.
Last edited by Tom68 on Fri Feb 24, 2023 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
So for a fact that he gained almost 40 hp from stock without the parts we have in the states and lives in Finland is pretty damn good in my book. Good Job!
