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Reciprocating weight tests ?
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Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
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Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
It changes the measurement.
What is the value of that data?
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Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Math to detirmine effects of adding rocker nose weight?
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Stan
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Stan
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
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Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
that is not the question, you claimed the followingSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 amIt changes the measurement.
What is the value of that data?
What is happening at least on the dynos around here with constant acceleration rate is when MMOI is redcued the engine is producing the same power but the dyno reads higher hp at the wheels as less goes into accelerating the massSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:02 am I'm curious, who believes that DVs claim that reducing mass increases rear wheel power?
Hint; The work being done was reduced, the power was not increased.
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
i have built many 2 barrell 350 circle track motors and the ones with light cranks rod and pistons always accelerate quicker. On my dyno they make about the same tq and hp. On the race track its a different story. Im not going to have a pis---- match about it.
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Forget light weight for a moment. We just cant make all the parts a feather light to make best wheel hp, because that would be stupidity! BTDT.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:35 pmthat is not the question, you claimed the followingSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 amIt changes the measurement.
What is the value of that data?
What is happening at least on the dynos around here with constant acceleration rate is when MMOI is redcued the engine is producing the same power but the dyno reads higher hp at the wheels as less goes into accelerating the massSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:02 am I'm curious, who believes that DVs claim that reducing mass increases rear wheel power?
Hint; The work being done was reduced, the power was not increased.
Hint hint; engine performance vs vehicle performance. It doesn't need to be that light to make hp, because when the engine makes the most torque at the highest rpm, thats when it has a good chance to accelerate the car as well.
-juhana
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
The discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:28 pmForget light weight for a moment. We just cant make all the parts a feather light to make best wheel hp, because that would be stupidity! BTDT.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:35 pmthat is not the question, you claimed the followingSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 9:56 am
It changes the measurement.
What is the value of that data?
What is happening at least on the dynos around here with constant acceleration rate is when MMOI is redcued the engine is producing the same power but the dyno reads higher hp at the wheels as less goes into accelerating the massSchmidtMotorWorks wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:02 am I'm curious, who believes that DVs claim that reducing mass increases rear wheel power?
Hint; The work being done was reduced, the power was not increased.
Hint hint; engine performance vs vehicle performance. It doesn't need to be that light to make hp, because when the engine makes the most torque at the highest rpm, thats when it has a good chance to accelerate the car as well.
-juhana
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Id rather take a big cam lobe than a small one. Its not the lightest, but i have one from catcams. It controls the valve events pretty accurately via the hydraulic lifter and I rev the engine as high as i can.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:10 pmThe discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:28 pmForget light weight for a moment. We just cant make all the parts a feather light to make best wheel hp, because that would be stupidity! BTDT.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:35 pm
that is not the question, you claimed the following
What is happening at least on the dynos around here with constant acceleration rate is when MMOI is redcued the engine is producing the same power but the dyno reads higher hp at the wheels as less goes into accelerating the mass
Hint hint; engine performance vs vehicle performance. It doesn't need to be that light to make hp, because when the engine makes the most torque at the highest rpm, thats when it has a good chance to accelerate the car as well.
-juhana
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Want other example how to make wheel hp?
-juhana
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Of course making the cam smaller can be counter-productive. Silly example. The idea is to reduce weight that [a] benefits acceleration but does not hurt reliability or power making ability. Small cams can twist/flex.
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
I said lighter not smaller. It’s pretty obvious what I mean. On the topic of camshafts hollow is one way even though it may end up physically bigger there are mass savingsjuuhanaa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:45 amId rather take a big cam lobe than a small one. Its not the lightest, but i have one from catcams. It controls the valve events pretty accurately via the hydraulic lifter and I rev the engine as high as i can.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:10 pmThe discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:28 pm
Forget light weight for a moment. We just cant make all the parts a feather light to make best wheel hp, because that would be stupidity! BTDT.
Hint hint; engine performance vs vehicle performance. It doesn't need to be that light to make hp, because when the engine makes the most torque at the highest rpm, thats when it has a good chance to accelerate the car as well.
-juhana
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Want other example how to make wheel hp?
-juhana
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Weight the cam and have fun experimenting. Just saying a balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger.. does it become lighter that way or not is something to think aboutdigger wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:54 amI said lighter not smaller. It’s pretty obvious what I mean. On the topic of camshafts hollow is one way even though it may end up physically bigger there are mass savingsjuuhanaa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:45 amId rather take a big cam lobe than a small one. Its not the lightest, but i have one from catcams. It controls the valve events pretty accurately via the hydraulic lifter and I rev the engine as high as i can.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:10 pm
The discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Want other example how to make wheel hp?
-juhana
-juhana
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
dynoflo wrote:i have built many 2 barrell 350 circle track motors and the ones with light cranks rod and pistons always accelerate quicker
I've never come a cross an instance where sensibly reducing MOI inside an engine, that has to accelerate then decelerate during a race, doesn't allow some improvement, never
OK with a drag car heavy flywheel 'stored energy' is a different case, but I don't do drag stuff, and you still have to accelerate the engine MOI down the rest of the strip after you've launched it
While it's useful to chuck all the maths around, simplistically a wind up toy analogy illustrates the basics involved ....... slow to wind up, slow to slow down
It's this latter effect that I think is underestimated, most seem to just focus on the ability to accelerate all of this coming out of the corner but you have a bigger 'problem' slowing it all down again at the end of the straight at tracks where you have to slow for the corners ....... it's spinning much, much faster and you have far less time to dissipate the stored energy
- Stan Weiss
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Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
I don't know what engine / cam you have, but with an in block cam the more lobe lift it has the smaller the base circle has to be.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:45 amId rather take a big cam lobe than a small one. Its not the lightest, but i have one from catcams. It controls the valve events pretty accurately via the hydraulic lifter and I rev the engine as high as i can.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:10 pmThe discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 5:28 pm
Forget light weight for a moment. We just cant make all the parts a feather light to make best wheel hp, because that would be stupidity! BTDT.
Hint hint; engine performance vs vehicle performance. It doesn't need to be that light to make hp, because when the engine makes the most torque at the highest rpm, thats when it has a good chance to accelerate the car as well.
-juhana
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Want other example how to make wheel hp?
-juhana
Stan
Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Offering Performance Software Since 1987
http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm
David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization Software
http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
Well in the old Fiat twincam, a 12mm lift is about all that can fit inside the housings. A smaller base circle cam can be fun to brag about but its something for a tow engine with a limited revs.Stan Weiss wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 9:21 amI don't know what engine / cam you have, but with an in block cam the more lobe lift it has the smaller the base circle has to be.juuhanaa wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 12:45 amId rather take a big cam lobe than a small one. Its not the lightest, but i have one from catcams. It controls the valve events pretty accurately via the hydraulic lifter and I rev the engine as high as i can.digger wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 6:10 pm
The discussion hasn’t been about whether you should make parts feather weight or not.
In any case at top level Motorsport they always aim make things lighter to the point it doesn’t cause issues with reliability, durability, parasitic loss etc . They certainly are not deliberately making things heavy except where that solves the above issues.
Ultimately vehicle performance matters except on a dyno competition and the mass that matters is the vehicle equivalent mass which is “translational mass” and “rotational mass”
Want other example how to make wheel hp?
-juhana
Stan
-juhana
A balanced person dares to stagger, and modify ports bigger
Re: Reciprocating weight tests ?
The lobe can't be larger than the housing bore. The only way to increase valve lift is to take it off the base circle and then correct the geometry.
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
-Carl
-Carl