Cast steel
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Cast steel
I'm wondering why the OEMs or the aftermarket have not used cast steel to make cylinder block's or cylinder heads.
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Re: Cast steel
Maybe not good to use in a block for ring seal, but seems like would be good for cylinder heads.
Re: Cast steel
its often cheaper and results in higher quality castings due the intricacies involved and iron has better pourability and less shrinkage issues. Its also less dense
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Re: Cast steel
Cast iron is easier to cast in complex shapes, cheaper, machines easier and dampens vibrations better. Also porosity is not as much of a problem with complex iron castings. Austempered ductile iron would give better strength but cost and process capability for something like an engine block most likely are prohibitive.
Re: Cast steel
it is possible, but mostly it would cost more, and work worse.
I'd prefer to have some bronze cylinder heads. It would cost a lot, but also works good.
I'd prefer to have some bronze cylinder heads. It would cost a lot, but also works good.
Re: Cast steel
Because they don't need to.Little Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:20 pm I'm wondering why the OEMs or the aftermarket have not used cast steel to make cylinder block's or cylinder heads.
Can you imagine back in the day trying to control corrosion in a steel block.
Now if you want to weld one up out of 4130, that could be light and strong.
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Re: Cast steel
As already said, the machining is easier. Tooling cost is lower and don't need coolant to machine.
OEM's use cast steel for suspension spindles I believe.
OEM's use cast steel for suspension spindles I believe.
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Re: Cast steel
There's just so many reasons, cast steel lifter bores, ouch.
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Re: Cast steel
Cast steels melting point is close to sand, lotta glass can get made in the process. Its cheaper, better corrosion resistance, less shrinkage, better machinability etc.
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Re: Cast steel
Not quite cast steel, but manufacturers have been making blocks out of CGI ....... 'Compacted Graphite Iron' ....... for some time now in heavier duty applications, heavy diesel and also aftermarket race stuff too (I believe Nascar for one)
Not quite the same as 'Spheroidal / Nodular Iron' (a common 'cast' crank material) that concentrates the graphite into spheres, but similar in that it is compacted into 'little worms', hence having the other common name 'Vermicular Iron'
Doesn't quite have the strength of 'steel', but few of the problems casting it either, which would be a production managers nightmare
Common 'flaky' Cast Iron has been poured & machined for centuries now, it's processing is old hat and it's still good enough for most blocks, even when pushed well beyond their design criteria, for a lot of the reasons already mentioned
Not quite the same as 'Spheroidal / Nodular Iron' (a common 'cast' crank material) that concentrates the graphite into spheres, but similar in that it is compacted into 'little worms', hence having the other common name 'Vermicular Iron'
Doesn't quite have the strength of 'steel', but few of the problems casting it either, which would be a production managers nightmare
Common 'flaky' Cast Iron has been poured & machined for centuries now, it's processing is old hat and it's still good enough for most blocks, even when pushed well beyond their design criteria, for a lot of the reasons already mentioned
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Re: Cast steel
Take a look at the EMD 567 and 645 prime movers.
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Re: Cast steel
Cast steels melting point is close to sand, lotta glass can get made in the process. Cast iron is cheaper, better corrosion resistance, less shrinkage, better machinability etc. Sorry for poor clarity in the first post
Mummert Machine and Development 4 stroke hp
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Re: Cast steel
Some years back a customer sent me some semi finished Indian repro cylinders that were not bored. I was impressed at the finish of what had been done, the reason soon became apparent, they were steel.
Someone had gone to a whole lot of trouble to make these, unfortunately A Berco AC400 boring bar would barely touch them, after a few try's with tooling it became apparent that wrecking my machine would not be covered by my invoice.[the outcome may have been different if i was not dealing with the skin] I called the customer and let him know that he should send them back to whoever made them and get them to bore them, he suggested my machine was unsuitable for the task, i told him that he should hold that thought and share it with the next in line.
The extension of this story supported my opinion of those involved.
Not that there is anything wrong with steel in appropriate applications with appropriate machining capability.
Mag, i thought the EMD blocks were fabricated, that included steel castings?
Cheers.
Someone had gone to a whole lot of trouble to make these, unfortunately A Berco AC400 boring bar would barely touch them, after a few try's with tooling it became apparent that wrecking my machine would not be covered by my invoice.[the outcome may have been different if i was not dealing with the skin] I called the customer and let him know that he should send them back to whoever made them and get them to bore them, he suggested my machine was unsuitable for the task, i told him that he should hold that thought and share it with the next in line.
The extension of this story supported my opinion of those involved.
Not that there is anything wrong with steel in appropriate applications with appropriate machining capability.
Mag, i thought the EMD blocks were fabricated, that included steel castings?
Cheers.
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Re: Cast steel
The primary reason being that ductile cast iron is a superior material, compared to steel,Little Mouse wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:20 pm I'm wondering why the OEMs or the aftermarket have not used cast steel to make cylinder block's or cylinder heads.
for cylinder blocks.
Ductile, or nodular cast iron has graphite nodules that provide a low friction coefficient
when run against steel pistons rings. It also has a very high tensile, high hardness, is easy
to cast accurately and...it is cheaper than steel.
Cylinder heads are made of aluminum alloys because it provides a high thermal transfer.