5.0 LS cam for 7500.
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5.0 LS cam for 7500.
I think their challenge is to make peak HP at 7500 with good flowing heads on a 5.0 LS and compare it to a coyote.
The question is does it need a Coyote sized cam, sub 223 degrees ??? If that's what Coyotes use for 7500, or does it need Greg's 247 degree cam choice.
Hopefully we get to find out in the future.
https://youtu.be/suOCWgT8iiU
The question is does it need a Coyote sized cam, sub 223 degrees ??? If that's what Coyotes use for 7500, or does it need Greg's 247 degree cam choice.
Hopefully we get to find out in the future.
https://youtu.be/suOCWgT8iiU
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
I don't know why this seems like such a feat. What heads? How's he coming up with a 5 litre LS? Big bore short stroke? Big bored 4.8? I've done 408+ LS engines that spin 8000+ with hydraulic roller cams in the 250 ish range.
Maximum power using simple logic and common sense
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
No big feat, just that Ben and Greg in the video come up with pretty different intake duration for the same goal. Sub 223 v 247.Bigchief632 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 5:12 pm I don't know why this seems like such a feat. What heads? How's he coming up with a 5 litre LS? Big bore short stroke? Big bored 4.8? I've done 408+ LS engines that spin 8000+ with hydraulic roller cams in the 250 ish range.
Ported 799s, 3.858 bore.
6 month old video, maybe the results are in ?
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
I'm slowly putting together a 5L for a "crackerbox" boat. 2.94 stroke, solid roller .903 lifters, 9000rpm. We'll see how that goes in a few months.
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Not really following along here?Tom68 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 4:30 pm I think their challenge is to make peak HP at 7500 with good flowing heads on a 5.0 LS and compare it to a coyote.
The question is does it need a Coyote sized cam, sub 223 degrees ??? If that's what Coyotes use for 7500, or does it need Greg's 247 degree cam choice.
Hopefully we get to find out in the future.
https://youtu.be/suOCWgT8iiU
Are you saying a 2 valve LS will need the same duration as a 4 valve Coyote?
Kind of all meaningless without looking at valve area. For the same peak, my observation a properly built 4 valve will make more torque due to valve area advantage resulting in less duration needed. It’s hard getting around the valve area vs time loss advantage of a pentroof 4 valve.
7500 (8000rpm redline) 302ci road race engines (or 4 cylinders with similar bore / stroke) that I’ve seen are around 250-255* at .050” and around 0.700” valve lift (if you can get it), depending on the heads obviously.
You could probably be more aggressive for a hero dyno motor shootout and / or a drag race engine.
-Bob
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Nah, I think the LS will need the bigger cam and of course not be comparable to the Coyote through the rest of the rev range.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm
Are you saying a 2 valve LS will need the same duration as a 4 valve Coyote?
Kind of all meaningless without looking at valve area. For the same peak, my observation a properly built 4 valve will make more torque due to valve area advantage resulting in less duration needed. It’s hard getting around the valve area vs time loss advantage of a pentroof 4 valve.
7500 (8000rpm redline) 302ci road race engines (or 4 cylinders with similar bore / stroke) that I’ve seen are around 250-255* at .050” and around 0.700” valve lift (if you can get it), depending on the heads obviously.
You could probably be more aggressive for a hero dyno motor shootout and / or a drag race engine.
I'm assuming they arecomparing to a Coyote with a smaller cam that nonetheless peaks at 7500.
I'm curious to see what they come up with and the test results. The project dates back to early 2021 so I guess I better not hold my breath.
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ ... the-ls5-0/
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
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Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
You can look at the 2013 EMC Challenge results to see (they really ruined it after that year once they realized the 4 valve heads were going to dominate and probably effect sponsor sales ) . Stock casting mod motors vs aftermarket LS and and vintage architecture headed engines and their camshaft durations vs power curves. The Coyote head should be even better than those ones.Tom68 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:54 pmNah, I think the LS will need the bigger cam and of course not be comparable to the Coyote through the rest of the rev range.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:37 pm
Are you saying a 2 valve LS will need the same duration as a 4 valve Coyote?
Kind of all meaningless without looking at valve area. For the same peak, my observation a properly built 4 valve will make more torque due to valve area advantage resulting in less duration needed. It’s hard getting around the valve area vs time loss advantage of a pentroof 4 valve.
7500 (8000rpm redline) 302ci road race engines (or 4 cylinders with similar bore / stroke) that I’ve seen are around 250-255* at .050” and around 0.700” valve lift (if you can get it), depending on the heads obviously.
You could probably be more aggressive for a hero dyno motor shootout and / or a drag race engine.
I'm curious to see what they come up with and the test results. The project dates back to early 2021 so I guess I better not hold my breath.
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ ... the-ls5-0/
I like how that EngineLabs article tries to be scientific and then they write this:
What camp thinks it’s the oushrods that make a difference? Lol. It’s 4 valves vs 2 valves. That’s the difference, that’s what the engine “sees”.Initially, we’ve found people fall into two camps. Camp one says, “if displacement is the same, they will probably perform the same.” Camp two is of the mind that because one is a pushrod engine and the other is an overhead cam engine, the two engines will perform wildly differently. If we take into account the power-per-cubic-inch numbers from the previous tests, we certainly have our work cut out for us to get the LS5.0 to match the Coyote’s results.
-Bob
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Yer that 2013 Challenge covers it.hoffman900 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:15 pm
You can look at the 2013 EMC Challenge results to see (they really ruined it after that year once they realized the 4 valve heads were going to dominate and probably effect sponsor sales ) . Stock casting mod motors vs aftermarket LS and and vintage architecture headed engines and their camshaft durations vs power curves. The Coyote head should be even better than those ones.
I like how that EngineLabs article tries to be scientific and then they write this:What camp thinks it’s the oushrods that make a difference? Lol. It’s 4 valves vs 2 valves. That’s the difference, that’s what the engine “sees”.Initially, we’ve found people fall into two camps. Camp one says, “if displacement is the same, they will probably perform the same.” Camp two is of the mind that because one is a pushrod engine and the other is an overhead cam engine, the two engines will perform wildly differently. If we take into account the power-per-cubic-inch numbers from the previous tests, we certainly have our work cut out for us to get the LS5.0 to match the Coyote’s results.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2013-am ... allenge-2/
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Ignorance leads to confidence more often than knowledge does.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Nah, I'm not leaving myself out of the ignorant brigade....at times.
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Hiya Folks,
I found out a bit more info on our project. It is very budget limited and that sucks but is what it is. It is limited to a 650 carb. I absolutely love anything limited carb. I'll keep everyone posted as we progress. It's going to be a fun project for me.
Heat is energy, energy is horsepower...but you gotta control the heat.
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Those numbers read like it has to last a single dyno pull and will fall on its fave immediately after. 230* at .050 and over .600 valve lift?Tom68 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:29 pm Bens smaller cam formula.
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/ ... -of-efi-u/
He did qualify it that it could want 275* at .050” and you need to dyno test. So he gets that it isn’t that simple.
-Bob
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
This is what I would recommend for making peak HP at 7,500rpm, for a 5.0L with a 3.26" stroke, and enough port to supply the engine at 7,500rpm.
Intake: 244@.050", .637" Valve Lift
Exhaust: 248-254@.050", .610"-630" Valve Lift(depending on exhaust port size)
110 to 114 LSA, depending on compression ratio.
With a cam below 230@.050", the power would start dropping off at 6,900rpm.
If you measure the curtain area at every .050" of valve lift, you will see why a 2-Valve engine needs much more duration then a 4-valve.
Intake: 244@.050", .637" Valve Lift
Exhaust: 248-254@.050", .610"-630" Valve Lift(depending on exhaust port size)
110 to 114 LSA, depending on compression ratio.
With a cam below 230@.050", the power would start dropping off at 6,900rpm.
If you measure the curtain area at every .050" of valve lift, you will see why a 2-Valve engine needs much more duration then a 4-valve.
Mike Jones
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
Can someone else do the calculations using Ben's method?
Using Ben's method I get 197.25 degrees @ 0.050" Now to fair this method uses a fixed VE% of 100%.
Stan
Using Ben's method I get 197.25 degrees @ 0.050" Now to fair this method uses a fixed VE% of 100%.
Stan
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Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
It takes a special calculator to do YouTube math.Stan Weiss wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:26 pm Can someone else do the calculations using Ben's method?
Using Ben's method I get 197.25 degrees @ 0.050" Now to fair this method uses a fixed VE% of 100%.
Mike Jones
Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
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Jones Cam Designs
Denver, NC
jonescams@bellsouth.net
http://www.jonescams.com
Jones Cam Designs' HotPass Vendors Forum: viewforum.php?f=44
(704)489-2449
Re: 5.0 LS cam for 7500.
CamKing wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 2:51 pmIt takes a special calculator to do YouTube math.Stan Weiss wrote: ↑Sat Mar 18, 2023 12:26 pm Can someone else do the calculations using Ben's method?
Using Ben's method I get 197.25 degrees @ 0.050" Now to fair this method uses a fixed VE% of 100%.
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