SuperStock 461X 041X Heads and Dyno tests

[SpeierRacingHeads]

Larry, that is where I dyno. Salina Engine. They finally retired that old SF and have a Stuska now. Todd, the owner, just uses it as a hobby shop now. Locked the door full of parts, equipment, several years ago. A few employees have keys and still do work on the side. Like dyno, etc.

[Jeff Lee]

When inquiring as to why the index between each of the Super Stock G/H/I is only .05 apart, yet the weight between is approximately 150# between each, I was told that “it was a way of NHRA controlling Danny Helmer and his Camaro”. I guess I see why now!
Do we still have Danny and his Camaro in SS?
You guys did some impressive work back then!

[maxracesoftware]

When inquiring as to why the index between each of the Super Stock G/H/I is only .05 apart, yet the weight between is approximately 150# between each, I was told that “it was a way of NHRA controlling Danny Helmer and his Camaro”. I guess I see why now!
Do we still have Danny and his Camaro in SS?
You guys did some impressive work back then!

“it was a way of NHRA controlling Danny Helmer and his Camaro”

Division 4 didn't seem to care ... it was more the other NHRA Divisions
like when Dave Layer + NHRA Tech Guy would not let Danny come into the building while they checked his Heads

Danny told me that ... i didn't respond like he thought i would .. i was happy he set the Record + flattered Dave Layer went in there and checked it out

but Danny sad he was mad about the situation !

[Tuner]

Various Pictures of my Shop equipment, etc

this is when i was doing 2 Oil Company's Hot Shot Truck Engine complete Rebuilds
1 Company had BBC454 and SBC350 engines
other Company had same BBC454 and SBC350 and International Harvester 345cid V8 Engines

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Those obsolete Dominators and that old Marquette distributor machine are just junk. It is extremely imperative that I find it necessary to confiscate them. If I have to, I will tell you twice.

[hoffman900]

Larry, always enjoyed Super Stock classes and that era. Keep it coming.

[maxracesoftware]

Larry, always enjoyed Super Stock classes and that era. Keep it coming.

hi Bob ,
i have a tremendous amount of Data to Post ... stay tuned !

up next Subject : way , way , too fast CSA FPS velocities , Pushrod Pinch, Floor's Apex areas, raising Intake Port Floors
and there effects on NHRA older style very limited Port CSA and Port Volume CC's cast-iron OEM SuperStock Heads

[mag2555]

Larry, I am all ears for this next round of info!

Thanks in advance!

[Stan Weiss]

Larry, always enjoyed Super Stock classes and that era. Keep it coming.

hi Bob ,
i have a tremendous amount of Data to Post ... stay tuned !

up next Subject : way , way , too fast CSA FPS velocities , Pushrod Pinch, Floor's Apex areas, raising Intake Port Floors
and there effects on NHRA older style very limited Port CSA and Port Volume CC's cast-iron OEM SuperStock Heads

Hi Larry,
Sounds like you have enough material to write a book.

Check your email.

Thanks,
Stan

[maxracesoftware]

up next Subject : way , way , too fast CSA FPS velocities , Pushrod Pinch, Floor's Apex areas, raising Intake Port Floors
and their effects on NHRA older style very limited Port CSA and Port Volume CC's cast-iron OEM SuperStock Heads

Example : 2 SuperStock pairs of #041x castings Flowtested same Intake and Exhaust Flow numbers
but have radical differences in Intake Port velocity FPS areas , same Valves , same brand new Valve Springs/Retainers 285 Lbs Seat pressures,
same Camshaft Cam Motion 143I/143E 106LSA , same Victor-E Manifold , Carb setup , etc

1 pair #041x Intake Port Pushrod Pinch is smaller area + complete Floor raised and Floor's Apex area raised
before Short Turn is filled with Moroso AB Stick Epoxy
Jimmy Faul originally purchased a pair of #041x and #462 castings from some HeadPorter in Kentucky ( thats all Jimmy would ever reveal to me )
2 Days before this Dyno session, Jimmy met me at my Shop at night to Flow test these Kentucky #041x Heads ,
the Intake and Exhaust Flow Numbers were 247-248 Intakes / 193-195 Exhaust
basically same thing i was getting Porting #041x SS Heads ( the 041x Heads i Ported for Danny Helmer had around 250-253 / 200-203 cfm )

i Pitot Probed the Pushrod Pinch area , very fast FPS , the Floor's Apex area pegged out my Pitot reading + 48" ,,,i had to pull it out super quick
or get the Manometer Fluid spilling over into Top well being trapped there , not a good thing to happen !!!
i knew this #041x Heads were not going to make any good HP, but when Jimmy asked me what i thought about them ???
... i told we'll learn something one way or another in just a few Days when we Dyno test
but i never thought they would be this bad !

so here's results of the Kentucky #041x Heads , Test1 and Test3 -vs- one of best #041x Test on Jimmy's same Engine combo
The TQ and HP Numbers are pretty close at at 4600 to 4800 RPM to each other at the start of the Dyno tests
however, a very drastic HP Loss by 7600 RPM !!!
after Test#3 Jimmy called it quits , took his Engine off the Dyno !
Jimmy Dragstrip tested those Heads after the Head Porter told him my Dyno is messed up , that they would Run fast down the Dragstrip,
go test them .... Jimmy ran mid 10.50's to , mid 10.60's ETs with them


Comparing the Kentucky #041x 165cc -to- Meaux #041x 165cc

Kentucky041x_vs_Meaux041x_FS.jpg

Kentucky041x_Test_1.jpg

Kentucky041x_Test_3.jpg

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Comparing the Kentucky #041x 165cc -to- Meaux #462 162cc

Kentucky041x_vs_Meaux462_FS2.jpg

 

way too fast Intake Port CSA areas "kills" hi RPM HP on these SuperStock Heads !!
that's at only 7600 RPM... just think how bad HP is 8000+ RPM upwards
 





 

[maxracesoftware]

Comparing Meaux #462 castings 162.0cc -to- Meaux #041x 165.0 cc
... just 3 more CC's to enlarge the Intake Port in way too fast areas can get you a big HP gain as seen in this comparison !

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way too fast Intake Port CSA areas "kills" hi RPM HP on these SuperStock Heads !!
that's at only 7600 RPM... just think how bad HP is 8000+ RPM upwards
 

[maxracesoftware]

from my Dyno testing along with Dragstrip testing this is what i discovered so far :

SuperStockers with 2-Speed Powerglide does not lose as much HP if an Intake or Exhaust Port has way too fast local CSA velocities
reason : 2-Speed has way less Engine RPM/SECOND rev rates -vs- 3 or 4 speeds
... so that the Chevy SuperStockers w/ Powerglides lose less HP

SuperStockers with 3-Speed Automatic Trans , such as, Chrysler SuperStockers have more HP loss with Intake or Exhaust Port that has way too fast local CSA velocities

SuperStockers with 4-Speed Manual/Clutch Trans lose even more HP "if" there's too fast local CSA velocities

[maxracesoftware]

Come on Larry, why you messin with that old technology?? It's 23 degree junk.. LOL!

The people who think and say that are complete idiots. They have zero idea what this stuff is all about. zero!

Anyway, here is a Layer 041 w/2.02 on my bench. Head was crazy fast, set the record, but are now sprinklers. The curve next to it is a Edelbrock casting 2.02. The difference is pretty crazy for only a 50lb weight add!

How did he get the .200 number and 210 @ .300 lift, your analysis please

"How did he get the .200 number and 210 @ .300 lift, your analysis please"

Mark , i forgot about your question
Layer had 30deg Backcuts on both 1.940/1.500 Intake and Exhaust Valves on the pair of #041x Heads i Flowtested + Dyno tested
i only had 30deg Intake Valve Backcuts , never any Exhaust Valve Backcuts

Chad says Layer had 2.020 Valves and i'm guessing 1.600 Exhaust Valve
and most probably had 30deg Backcuts on both Intake and Exhaust Valves

[Tom68]

from my Dyno testing along with Dragstrip testing this is what i discovered so far :

SuperStockers with 2-Speed Powerglide does not lose as much HP if an Intake or Exhaust Port has way too fast local CSA velocities
reason : 2-Speed has way less Engine RPM/SECOND rev rates -vs- 3 or 4 speeds
... so that the Chevy SuperStockers w/ Powerglides lose less HP

SuperStockers with 3-Speed Automatic Trans , such as, Chrysler SuperStockers have more HP loss with Intake or Exhaust Port that has way too fast local CSA velocities

SuperStockers with 4-Speed Manual/Clutch Trans lose even more HP "if" there's too fast local CSA velocities

I don't know what that means, but I did love Glides (street fun) obviously they favour a wide power band.

[maxracesoftware]

a month or so later after the Kentucky #041x Dyno tests, Jimmy brought the other Kentucky #462 castings to my Shop ,
he had them submerged pressure-tested at a Baton Rouge Machine Shop,
the 1st Head pressure-tested and 3 exhaust port were leaking at the Welds,
didn't bother to leak-test the other #462 Head, it might not have leaked ?

Jimmy asked me to see if i can stop it from leaking water ?
... they have been sitting in my Shop for 25+ years , i never did anything with them,
never even Flow tested them or probed them, ( they were brand new back then , still never used on an Engine to this date )
but from what i saw , Kentucky #462 castings would have made more HP than the Kentucky #041x Heads version
because they had a lot less AB Epoxy in the Intake Ports , no epoxy on the Floor's Apex area !

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[Tom68]

That wasn't something to learn to weld on.