Mystery sludge

[Lizardracing]

SBC, 406ci, 13:1 on E85, Dirt track engine, 1200 laps. Shaeffers 5-50 oil every 10 nights.

Anyone here smarter than me?

After the oil change interval results cam back every was really good except for a note of "high insoluables". I assumed race track dirt,
It kept me up at night so I removed the pan to get a good look at things. Seems good to me except what the hell is the sludge in the bottom of the pan? It's thick, slick and sticky, like grease, sticks to a magnet.
I washed it out with my parts washer to some extent but a little diesel and brake cleaner took care of the rest.
Could this be Moly in the oil settling out?

[jamie]

E85 does this. Also looks like track dirt mixed in. How often do you clean your air filter?

[Lizardracing]

E85 does not do this. My carb guy has too many customers NOT having this issue nor have I in the past 5 years. The lab results don't indicate fuel contamination. This oil is designed for all alcohol fuels per Schaeffers.
New Wix paper air filter every 2-3 nights OR every night in the summer dust.

[Warp Speed]

Could be a high content of moly. Bearings don't appear to have excessive dirt through them.

[hoodeng]

Is it actually magnetic as you said, or is it just sticking to the wand? does it wipe off without leaving a residue and then pick up off the rag after drying out?

The analysis shows double ferrite but says in the report that it is within averages. Has the block been honed without plateau?
Silicon is half the average so it does not look like the engine is dusted.
It also shows a lot of molybdenum but, it is not magnetic. And yes, Moly will leave residue everywhere if not held suspended.
Too much Moly can load the crosshatch in bores.

[cgarb]

Maybe try another brand of oil and see if the problem continues. Easy way to rule out the oil.

[rebelrouser]

I use Valvoline VR1 in my drag car engine, and I see the same sludge when I freshen the engine. And I have seen it in other engines I have worked on, I always assumed it was from components of the oil, and additives settling out as the car sat. I never tried to see if it stuck to a magnet, and on my engine, I seldom see damage to the bearings from small particles.

[Sodbuster]

I get the same thing with Brad Penn/ Penn Grade oil in my drag car

[mt-engines]

Probably just soot combined with moly.. E85 is a hell of a detergent,the insides of those engine generally are cleaner from being steam cleaned.

I see that on all the E85 stuff I do. Never really concerned me. I've used cheap bulk no name oil in some of them and more expensive lat, redline, gibbs etc.. they all do it. The green and blue oils seem to look worse, only because the oil is darker.

[donclark]

We see it with Driven oil as well, engineer told us it is additive drop out.

[Chris_Hamilton]

Question for you guys, so assuming this happens with most "performance" type oils, what is the proper maintenance type thing to do occasionally? Drop the pan and clean the sludge on a somewhat regular basis?

[Walter R. Malik]

SBC, 406ci, 13:1 on E85, Dirt track engine, 1200 laps. Shaeffers 5-50 oil every 10 nights.

Anyone here smarter than me?

After the oil change interval results cam back every was really good except for a note of "high insoluables". I assumed race track dirt,
It kept me up at night so I removed the pan to get a good look at things. Seems good to me except what the hell is the sludge in the bottom of the pan? It's thick, slick and sticky, like grease, sticks to a magnet.
I washed it out with my parts washer to some extent but a little diesel and brake cleaner took care of the rest.
Could this be Moly in the oil settling out?

This may not have anything to do with your issue but, I have seen some synthetic oils do this when they are run cold and not heated enough.
Most of the times I have seen this, is on Drag Race engines running cold synthetic oil so, it may or may not have interest to you.

[barnym17]

Nothing to do with the sludge and probably is just picture but the main kind of looks like its fretting.And kind of curious about the higher than average iron content?

[Lizardracing]

Thanks everyone. I don't know what it it either. Since the bearings look good enough and the oil analysis looks okay and the oil comes out the same color is goes in, Lash has never changed leakdowns are still acceptable. I'm going to run it and monitor closely. I only get about 10-12 nights a year to play so I'll change the oil at 6 nights and send a bore scope up the pan then. I also emailed Scheaffers to see if they had an opinion.

hoodeng,
It was honed with a torque plate for sure, I cannot confirm if it were platue honed as well. I trust my engine guy so I don't ask too many questions when I drop off something. I gave him the pistons I wanted to use with the rings and asked to square it up. I always include a build sheet with and let him do what he does. Then I mic everything to confirm, race prep the block and assemble myself. That way there isn't anyone to blame but me if something goes sideways. I'm not new either, this particular engine is my 45th. A mix of SBC, BBC, SBF and Mopars...Well, tha'ts about a useless as socks on roosters to me. HAHA!



barnym17
Yes, I noticed that too. Wet noodle OE block and OE caps, I wouldn't be surprised. This thing is making around 600-620hp at 7500. Mikes FT cam and Brodix heads. Pictured is the center main. I chose that one because Ive experienced the center main as the one that tends to show problems first. It has a ARP main studs kit at 80lbs with Moly. That also what my engine guys use when they did the main bore alignment and I confirmed with a inside mic the cap was indeed round when setting bearing clearances my self. The caps still fit tight in the registers and require a tappy tap to seat before the nuts go on. It may be the caps moving around but I'm thinking if it were severe than it would show up in the bearings.

[barnym17]

Not a lot you can do with OEM block at those power levels on dirt but rules are rules.Possibly splayed mains and partial fill with oil cooler since your on e85.